Justice League movie

[Navarre]

So, yeah, DC has plans now to make a Justice League movie.

This has been poorly attempted by them before but it always fell through. You don't think the box office sales of The Avengers film might have renewed their motivation, do you? 

It seems that, probably due to rights issues more than salary, they are looking to make a movie that does does not feature the current actors such as Christian Bale. Also, it seems this movie will exist independently of the events of the other DC films.

From my standpoint, DC is about to fail. They are missing the concept of continuity (shocking for DC, I know), flawed characters (which is much of what makes Marvel's characters work), and viewer investment (as The Avengers relied on the previous films, although of course DC has its fans).

It's not like Marvel Studios wasn't rolling strong with its new movie line before DC jumped in with the mess that was "Green Lantern". Without everything Marvel brought to the table with "The Avengers", especially Joss Whedon, I find myself rolling my eyes at all this.

I'm always of the opinion to give something a chance before completely condemning it though. So, although I have little faith here, it'll be good to hear the opinions.

Gaumer will somehow support this film I bet, just because he argues the other side of any topic with me by default.   

[Gaumer]

I argue the other side because I can argue either side and its just more fun if we disagree

Although, in this case, everything you say is accurate. There is no consumer investment in a franchise, and this was a huge part of the success of the Avengers, but

Let's say they work this in the reverse: Have a great team-up movie where Batman isn't all-knowing and Superman isn't all-powerful. A team movie just doesn't work in the context of the individual DC characters from the movies that have been made so far starring those characters. Its always been the "being different" or "being the loner" that has kept Batman and Superman (at least) from making sense on a team, so maybe they can have them build a better individual characterization for each character by newly building them inside a team dynamic from the beginning, humanizing them a bit more for their individual movies.

Just a thought, but I think its hard to compare movies to The Avengers because it was such an overarching plan that was such a huge success: A unique occurrence in film.

[Alisha Mynx]

As much as I'd like a Justice League movie, I'm more than happy to wait longer for it if it means a quality movie.

DC isn't going to capture the same magic of Avengers.  It just isn't going to happen, so they shouldn't even try.  Instead, they should focus on what makes the Justice League and her members so great.  The potential for a great movie is there, waiting to be tapped, they just need to tread lightly and learn from both the mistakes and successes of the past.

[Navarre]

I agree with that. DC has made the mistake of allowing their best properties to be thrown around for years and are now hoping to get some control of these licensed characters so they can attempt to capture what Marvel has brought to the table.

I don't think they can do that at this juncture. But, I do not think it is an impossibility.

Most people are familiar with the main Justice League characters so they don't really need an origin story, at least for the Big Three. But I think just throwing a team movie out there, even with those three, will lack the viewer investment that is part of what allowed The Avengers to succeed.

They may as well do what Marvel has done, building these characters over time until the team movie is warranted. They'll make money in the near future and more money in the long run.

[Damascus]

Listening to the guys on the pod talking recently about this movie announcement, and them siding with the idea of doing the team movie first, I disagreed.  Who am I? Nobody, BUT here's my view...
A team movie in my opinion would benefit from a majority of the viewing public coming into the theater knowing who was who (or whom was whom) and the baggage that comes with those characters, especially so they don't have to bother with origin stories.  Or at least an abbreviated backstory.  Without the earlier Marvel movies, a certain pivotal death wouldn't have had any real or major bearing in the story at least for the audience.  If you have a character that you aren't sure could support their own movie, then shoehorn them into another character's movie like they did with Black Widow and that brief scene in Thor for Hawkeye.  Maybe after the success of The Avengers they could make a lower budgeted Black Widow/Hawkeye movie, like a Bourne Identity or Mission Impossible type of film if they wanted to.  It's like DC just doesn't have any desire for a long term investment and just wants to go for the big bang up front.  I'll probably see it if it ever gets made, but even knowing the characters already I won't be invested at all in the actors playing those characters.  The humor in The Avengers wouldn't have worked without previously seeing most of these characters in their own movies and then seeing how they interacted with one another. 

Enough of that, I can't remember half of my argument this late anyway.  But I were to choose my particular Justice League for the movie I would choose, Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, Martian Manhunter and Green Lantern.  Kyle Rayner for me or John Stewart would be fine.  I like Guy but he's best for a JLI movie, he's not JLA material not for your first shot at this.  And if it were up to me, this could be the second JLA movie optimally, but the first could work if they built it up with individual movies of each of these characters.  It's been done, I know, but having Darkseid as the villain would work well, especially with the MSP crews concerns with the Big 3.  You can have Superman duking it out with Darkseid, and Wonder Woman taking on Granny Goodness and her Furies, Batman infiltrates Apokalips and faces down with Desaad and has to shut down the Boom Tube, there's still Kalibak, Steppenwolf, and Glorious Godfrey to go against the rest.  I just think that's a nice way to deal with have the Big 3 on the team without feeling like what's the point of the other guys. 

[Slappy]

Too bad they can not get Bea Arthur to play Wonder Woman anytime soon.  I'll bet her corpse just oozes sex appeal.

On another note, I believe that using the same formula as Marvel would be beneficial, but I doubt that WB could pull it off for a few reasons.
1.  Their dependance on running back to the Christopher Reeve well to do Superman.  I agree it is iconic, but Superman Returns relied heavily on that film as did Smallville regarding some of the music and designs.

2.  Where Marvel did not have any iconic movies to deal with, DC/WB has a few including the latest iteration of Batman.  ( I know it is debatable regarding Bale as Batman) but with this fresh series ending this summer, it may take a few years to set it up and allow others to forget the series as they did the one from the 90's.

3.  With the start of a new Superman series, I doubt DC/WB has considered the long term design plans/cinematography to work through a series of movies not directly connected like Marvel has magnificently done over the last few years.

4.  Marvel/Disney seems to have a better handle on getting their properties out there.  Looking at Netflix Streaming alone shows you that Marvel has almost every cartoon/ animated film available to watch and my children do watch them.  DC/WB has them only as a DVD primarily with a few exceptions. 
I am certain that this probably has to do with rights issues,  Superman Tom Welling suits are the first to come to mind but there are probably others in the mix.  Despite their claim of being 70, Marvel as a whole is really 50, and Stan Lee who was the main creator in the early days is on good terms and still involved with the company in a few ways including his cameos.  They show him the respect due a retired Mafia Don as they should.   

Until these issues are resolved and the non-existent (Correct me if I am wrong) or weak D.C. film division can take more control from the WB, we will probably get good films with some clunkers and no Universe.  Also known as the status quo.

[ManglesMcgee]

http://www.slashfilm.com/rumor-rebooted-batman-will-first-appear-in-justice-league-before-new-film-series/

Anyone else read this?

[Gaumer]

Sounds something like

Let's say they work this in the reverse:

now where is my check?

[Navarre]

I know! I thought of your earlier post as soon as I read the article.

And in the case of DC I think this would be best. Let them put 100% of their effort (marketing dollars but mainly superior writing) in creating a fantastic Justice League movie. Then use that to propel individual properties.

If Marvel had tried to do a Black Widow or Hawkeye film it probably would have ended up no better than Punisher or Ghost Rider. But now, following Avengers, they can do a movie and guarantee to fill seats.

I think the same approach is what's needed with characters like Martian Manhunter. It also avoids two problems: 1) making us sit through another origin story and, 2) a film like Green Lantern.

[Gaumer]

I agree.

But it could get awfully confusing bringing in some of these new characters, even if they are actually old characters (like GL) if they change things too much. GL took out an epic, celestial being that killed all kinds of GL's in that, I'd say, mediocre movie. But it was still seen by a lot of people, as was Batman, and Superman.

That's a lot to do in one movie; and introduce WW; and MM; and Flash and Aquaman, even...maybe...well, prolly not.


But its not like people don't know who these guys are. I think its a huge perk the DC franchise has over Marvel: In many aspects, you don't need an origin story for the audience to understand where the character comes from. I'm not sure if a single member of the Avengers (the main 4) would have had the mass appeal it did without a true, honest to goodness origin story.

But we'll never know. Discussion over


The more I hear about the plans for the DC run of movies the more excited I get.

[Navarre]

I think anyone will know Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman without an origin movie. Wonder Woman's origin could be covered in brief, depending on where she is in her career.

But thanks to the Super Friends and Justice League Unlimited and such we will have some passing familiarity with the character. It's no worse than me having to explain to some guy who had only watched JLU why the main character in the Green Lantern film was Caucasian.

And if you take Watchmen, no average movie goer knew anything about their origins, yet each got their share of the spotlight. Rorschach came out as a standout character. So too can Martian Manhunter. And unlike Watchmen, DC has more marketing pull and familiarity going into a JL movie.