Thor vs. Green Lantern

[herebewonder]

I know I'm way behind on this, but I just recently saw both these movies and am surprised at the similarities.

Both feature heroes who need to learn about themselves. Both have to deal with forces beyond the normal super-villain level. Both have to deal with a threat bigger than just to the city or even the Earth. (Even Superman never went much further than the moon.)

Interestingly, they also seem to play with both sides of the same coin: Thor shows that magic is like science. GL shows that science is like magic. Both eschew the damsel in distress, instead giving us a smart heroine (Thor) and an action girl of a sort (GL).

And both had very likable, sympathetic and well defined "villains" in Loki and Sinestro. (OK, Sinestro is a cheat and I don't really think the stinger makes any sense, but c'mon, it's Sinestro.)

That being said, they both had their weaknesses too. Thor was great, but the Guardian was kind of "Meh" to me. But then Thor has always had a weird rogue's gallery. And the Hector Hammond subplot in GL was almost unnecessary.

But, all in all, I was impressed. Much better than I expected. I may have to try some more of these, how do you say, "movies."

On a related note, if I was a director looking to cast someone for a Wonder Woman movie, I'd start with Sif. Awesome.

-c

[Navarre]

Many comic heroes have similar elements in their origins. Sometimes it is the good soul who has to embrace his responsibility (eg, Spider-Man or Superman). Sometimes it is the more jaded character who must learn about humility and true self-sacrifice.

The latter applies to both Thor and Green Lantern. In that respect they are similar characters and I think that gives a similar feel to their movies.

Unfortunately, both got the Hollywood treatment. Thor's path to humility and self-sacrifice was almost 100% motivated by his relationship with Jane. As much as I love Natalie Portman, I found it a weakness of the movie.

With her not returning (as far as I know) to "The Avengers" but Loki being the main villain, the movie should have concentrated more on the family dynamic of Odin/Thor/Loki. The relationships there is the driving force of a great villain and needed to be better developed instead of spending most of the screen time watching Thor and Jane do the romance thing.

That is not to say that the romance, and Jane, are unimportant. But the direction needed to be adjusted a bit.

[herebewonder]

Yeah, I'll give you the point that Thor's lesson was almost as quick as Anakin's fall to the dark side.

I'm wondering how they will do Thor 2 if Loki is in Avengers. If he gets away again and comes back in Thor 2 it will seems bit anticlimactic.

-c

[Navarre]

Comic villains do have a way of returning. Loki was the original reason the Avengers were gathered in the comic books. That was about 50 years ago and Loki is still around. Gods are like that.

I suspect Loki will be defeated but he won't be killed or anything. So he could always return in Thor 2.

That isn't to say that he will though or that he will be the main villain. The franchise would likely bring in some other foe from Thor's rogues gallery, not that he has that many.

The Executioner and the Enchantress would be interesting. Perhaps Hel as Thor has to make a journey into Niflheim.

[herebewonder]

Yeah, what I'd like to see for Thor 2 is the mf'ing Midgard Serpent. That would (potentially) rock.

Also like to see GL 2 be Sinestro Corp War, not just GL vs Sinestro, but then I can't imagine them  not doing that. Wonder if a GL 3 would be Blackest Night?

[Navarre]

It's hard to say. Look at X-3 (the third X-Men movie). They went for the Dark Phoenix saga but it was such a cluster because they couldn't stop themselves from having it all about Magneto and Wolverine.

If they had X-3 introduce the Hellfire Club and the escalation of Jean to the Phoenix, then cliff-hang it at the right spot, they could have had a fourth movie with the Dark Phoenix. But instead they threw a bunch of stuff together for no reason.

It baffles me why writers don't use the built-in scripts that comics provide. Sure it has to be adapted for the movie format but the essentials are there. But X-3 was a botch so it's hard to tell about a GL3 from here.

Spider-Man was the same way. They spent two movies building this great rivalry between Peter and Harry. Then they wasted it all in the third movie because someone decided we needed a Sandman story instead (conveniently retconned to connect Sandman to Peter's Uncle Ben).

Sad on so many levels.

[Gaumer]

I find that Marvel produced movies have done a far better job at staying away from the over-production the Spidey and X flicks were burdened by.

[Navarre]

Word!

I don't think the Marvel movies will go down the same path as X-Men and Spidey. But that doesn't mean a Green Lantern movie won't.

[Gaumer]

Word!

I don't think the Marvel movies will go down the same path as X-Men and Spidey. But that doesn't mean a Green Lantern movie won't.

I think GL's biggest problem is that they have already dealt with a really massive enemy in the first one, and I just don't think Sinestro can drive a movie as a villain.


I'm not sure you can categorize the Marvel movies the same way as the others. Yes, they were all very successful, but Marvel had a plan and a goal with each and every movie. Surely, taking the Marvel movies as a whole is not the same as taking all the X movies as a whole or all the Spidey movies as a whole, simply because those two franchises did not have an overarching plan with each installment, like the Marvel movies did and continue to do.

Logically, if you can't judge the franchises as a whole against each other, it is very hard to judge the individual movies against one another (Marvel produced vs. Other produced) because they are simply built differently.

Hopefully, any restraints placed on creators of the previous Marvel movies in order to facilitate this great plan have not been set upon creators (okay, set on Whedon ) of the Avengers movie, and they can really let that motha off the chain.

[Navarre]

Any two movies can be compared. It is simply true that the Marvel movies contain an overarching plan of building while the others either do not or are contained within their own title (eg, Spider-Man).

[Gaumer]

Any two movies can be compared. It is simply true that the Marvel movies contain an overarching plan of building while the others either do not or are contained within their own title (eg, Spider-Man).

Of course they can be, but is it fair to knowing that these movies were made in completely different ways with completely, and in the case of the Marvel movies, sometimes competing goals?

I'm not sure it is.

[Navarre]

Sure it is! 

No, I think it all depends on what we are comparing.

Can we compare the plot progression over the course of the movie? No, not in the sense that one has a broader goal than the other.

Can I compare Thor to Green Lantern in terms of which one made better use of its running time? Sure I can.

[herebewonder]

I think GL's biggest problem is that they have already dealt with a really massive enemy in the first one, and I just don't think Sinestro can drive a movie as a villain.

Yeah, that was the big difference I felt watching GL vs Thor. Sinestro by himself is just not enough compared to parallax. I'm not even sure that Sinestro Corp is enough. But jumping to Blackest Night wouldn't work either.

As for Thor, I can't imagine what they will do since they are using Loki in avengers. Other than Guradian or the Enchantress, the only other ones I can think of either monsters like the Midgard Serpent and Surtur or guys like the Wrecker and Absorbing man, which is a little to normal for a sequel.

Oh well, I'll watch and see I guess.

[Gaumer]

I doubt there would be any Avenger team member movies, that aren't prequel to one extent or another. With such a high profile cast, they may not even do an Avengers follow-up.

[Navarre]

But there is a Thor sequel so it must be about something.

The Midgard Serpent is too much a monster-bashing film and too close to Ragnarok, imo.

I still think a trip into Niflheim to face Hel and her minions would be cool. Add in the Enchantress and the Executioner for a more human element. All good.