Plot/World Building for Campaign

[Navarre]

Yeah, I'm with you, Tondi.

I admire your intention in bringing in everyone equally, Gaumer. But we have to have some sort of cohesion.

The purpose of the thread, from my understanding, was to help you create a game universe. Whether you or someone else uses it, I think we need to all be working under the same principles.

I have seen what happens when different creators make their own worlds and rules without adhering to an overall guideline or sense of continuity.

It's called the DC Universe. 

[Navarre]

I would be glad to help you with any given aspect of the universe's creation. Let's go back to those gods...

How do you, and anyone else, (since I posted here in the thread) feel about my water-worshiping Tideborne?

They are currently presented as Clerics who worship, not an actual deity, but the elemental principles of Water itself. I have given them a few unique qualities, which have correlation in the Clerics of the other three elements as well.

I have tried to create enough structure and hierarchy that a member could be identified within the organization (whether PC or NPC) yet leave it open enough that the DM (and maybe Player) could easily work in specifics and nuances to make a PC that doesn't get lost in the organization itself.

If you wish to have actual deities, then my next step would be to make an actual God of Water. However, if you are wishing to work on the water planet then I could take this same approach with Earth, Air, or Fire while you do that.

Thoughts?

[Gaumer]

Okay.

But if we're agreed on a method of creating gods first and updating this thread with our ideas/suggestions everything is made to be cohesive as we progress with the individual places/gods/planets we are gradually creating.

I think what we are discussing in the way of "rules" is going to end up being a less important aspect when it comes to its actual application. For instance, we go by regular old 3.5 rules by default for everything. Then one must ask "why does this rule or that rule need to be changed to make what I'm making exactly what I want it to be?" and then find a way to do it within the "rules". And by "rules" I mean, at its heart, DnD allows for subtlety in a DM controlling a party. There are easy ways to nerf magic, spells or items.

I'm not sure there is anything that can be come up with by anyone that we can't figure out a way of it fitting into things if everything is done collaboratively.

Throw out some of the things that our concerns and we can begin addressing them as part of the overall foundation building we are currently doing.

I would be glad to help you with any given aspect of the universe's creation. Let's go back to those gods...

How do you, and anyone else, (since I posted here in the thread) feel about my water-worshiping Tideborne?

They are currently presented as Clerics who worship, not an actual deity, but the elemental principles of Water itself. I have given them a few unique qualities, which have correlation in the Clerics of the other three elements as well.

I have tried to create enough structure and hierarchy that a member could be identified within the organization (whether PC or NPC) yet leave it open enough that the DM (and maybe Player) could easily work in specifics and nuances to make a PC that doesn't get lost in the organization itself.

If you wish to have actual deities, then my next step would be to make an actual God of Water. However, if you are wishing to work on the water planet then I could take this same approach with Earth, Air, or Fire while you do that.

Thoughts?

I like your basic idea for the water stuff. My plans involve a mostly water planet with dotted islands, as I've mentioned, with the god who created the planet a known, maybe even with a whole creation story and such, but have that main god only worshiped by a clan of mer-people who leave the surface goers alone for the most part, worshiping, by their opinion, the true god of this world. Meanwhile, surface people worship gods of other sorts, children of grandchildren of the main, elemental gods, who are gods of the ocean itself or sailing or even the sun or some other thing we come up with later.

I see this opening things up in the pantheon to an overdone level, but I think that's a good thing. With the planet ting we are doing I could see one god being known by different names in different areas. This also opens up more opportunity because there are so many options.

There's nothing saying that the gods have any sort of direct impact of the lives of mortals; it makes sense that the elder gods would care less about interfering with mortals while the younger gods may enjoy such a thing. Keeping the elder gods with more of a simple nature may work as well. There's also the idea of a rising demigod along the lines of a mortal reaching god level and finding a group of worshipers.

I think who does what next would depend on the route we wish to take things next. I like the idea of having the main elemental gods as elder gods and building a family tree from there as we see fit and necessary of just plain old cool. That said, yes, I'd like to begin with doing some water stuff (planet/god/maybe a hierarchy of the merfolk sect) and I'd love for anyone else to pick up on whatever they get a fancy to tackle.

I really think once we start getting some skeleton built the meat will fill in easier and easier.

[Navarre]

Do you have a reason yet on why the surface dwellers worship the others gods and not the water god?

Which came first, merfolk or surface dwellers?

Was the split between the races based on evolution or was it spontaneous creation on the part of the gods involved?

Is there an easy way for the merfolk to interact with the surface dwellers and vice-versa? This could be important when determining if players can play either type because, if I'm a merfolk but I can't go on land, that makes it rough if everyone else had a land-based PC.

[Gaumer]

Do you have a reason yet on why the surface dwellers worship the others gods and not the water god?

I was thinking it was merely a matter of timing. That the surface races didn't show up on the planet until after the other gods were created, even lead there by those gods at some point, ex. pilgrims, traders, fishermen. The merfolk would have been there much longer than the surface folks, back to the point where there was only the elemental "grandparents". Or it could even be a "or so they think" sort of thing, but that would come later I'd think.

Which came first, merfolk or surface dwellers?

Merfolk, I'd think. It could even be a matter of the whole planet was water, with no islands, for quite some time, until one of the other gods, perhaps a water/earth child, created the islands on his/her parent's planet. Yet other gods may have lead their followers to this planet even though that god had nothing to do with the building, I could see the offspring of an air god wanting followers on such a breezy world. Perhaps there was no breeze until an air god of some sort made the planet spin...

Was the split between the races based on evolution or was it spontaneous creation on the part of the gods involved?

I'm thinking a creation sort of thing. It could be a matter of some races being created by elder gods while others were created by "lesser" gods.

Is there an easy way for the merfolk to interact with the surface dwellers and vice-versa? This could be important when determining if players can play either type because, if I'm a merfolk but I can't go on land, that makes it rough if everyone else had a land-based PC.

I'm thinking keeping with the basic races is a better idea for everyone to keep on the same page or close to it. But if "monster" races were allowed I'd see the merfolk issue as no different as being in any other campaign that included water as a backdrop. There would be spells or magic items to overcome anything like that.

[Tondi-]

It's called the DC Universe. 

That made me laugh out loud.

If it's cool i'll just ask questions about raised issues and throw things out into the ether.

Question: How are gods created?
Question: How do gods gain power?
Question: If land dwellers worship a god does that mean it exists?

Suggestion: Underwater Martial Arts as a big deal (based on the iconic Bruce Lee "be like water" quote)

[Tondi-]

Is there an easy way for the merfolk to interact with the surface dwellers and vice-versa? This could be important when determining if players can play either type because, if I'm a merfolk but I can't go on land, that makes it rough if everyone else had a land-based PC.

I'm thinking keeping with the basic races is a better idea for everyone to keep on the same page or close to it. But if "monster" races were allowed I'd see the merfolk issue as no different as being in any other campaign that included water as a backdrop. There would be spells or magic items to overcome anything like that.

Suggestion: What if the merfolk had legs and could live on land if they so wished, it just isn't the normal thing to do.  Living in the water is like being closer to their god.  Why would you want to live on the land?

<insert singing crab here>

[Navarre]

I think just going with "gods are gods because they are" is easier than trying to actually explain the nature and origin of a god.

Maybe the planet was all water and had its merfolk then a child god of the Water and Earth god came along with some refugees/worshipers/whatever from the Earth-world. The child god raised some land for his people and plopped them down to make a new home.

The merfolk weren't too happy about these mud-dwellers being there. Maybe they even call the mud-dwellers "Mudds" (not to be confused with Mudbloods).  

*... pauses for a moment to think of Emma Watson* .... oh, wait, what was I saying again? ....

There could have been an initial war at one time. The merfolk wanted their oceans back and the Mudds had nowhere else to go.

Maybe the war was resolved after some senseless tragedy. This could have led to the treaty between the people when the leader of the merfolk and the leader of the Mudds had a child, proving that not only does love conquer all but that fish people and humanoids can get it on.

This could then also allow you to create a custom race of half-merfolk for those players who wish to entertain some of the sea affiliation. But the political union based on love was long, long ago and new tensions are arising among the two races over...something.

random thoughts

[Gaumer]

Yes, I like the "gods are gods" thing. But, I would think gods get their power because the thing they "are" exists. God of water has power because water exists; god of the sea and wind, for example, same thing. But I'm not sure if a bunch of people able to worship a god into creation is would work, but its possible. It could be the god of summoning, summoned by his own followers...throw some time travel into it


I like the idea of a transforming merfolk into people, but I was thinking more of them being sort of protectors of the water, since the elder, elemental god isn't very hands-on, and they are trying to stop a plot to...do something, I'm thinking either create more land on the planet or take/destroy/pollute the water, and the merfolk have spies and such trying to gather info on things. The "lesser" gods, having a more hands on approach, may be trying to help the situation/misunderstand the situation/try to benefit from the situation/try to speed up the "damage".

Very bare-bones, but I think it keeps it open for the PCs to do whatever they choose once this is discovered. Maybe they don't want to take up much more land and the merfolk are being sort of greedy and their xenophobia can be overcome, or the PCs want to stop things or somewhere in between or nothing at all.

But too, random thoughts

[Tondi-]

I would think gods get their power because the thing they "are" exists.

That's a pretty cool concept.  That would explain why water is so powerful on this planet and give them something to protect.

Say the mudders have come up with a way to expand into the water.  That would kind of be a literal attack on the god.

I like it idea of someone worshiping the god of boats after the first boat was invented and whoosh the god came into existence. 

So how are you going to decide what's cannon or not?

[Navarre]

A frequently used concept in D&D is that the gods derive their power from the number and strength of their followers. But I think Gaumer's idea that the gods are actually created from that faith is unique and very cool.

It does then open up some questions of how this happens. Maybe there is some sort of area, hidden in the cosmos, that acts as a tuning fork for this spiritual faith. Anything could be made into reality...or unmade...by enough psychic force.

But maybe no one knows about this "genesis point". It is thought that the gods came first and are maybe powered by their followers in the traditional sense when in fact it is as Gaumer said.

That alone would be a "OMFG" moment to the players when they figure this out. It could also be a plot vehicle if some minor villain sought to become a god amongst gods by gaining zealous followers.

The annoying soothsayer of Level 1 becomes the uber-god of Level 15 because he kept gathering worshipers, despite his seemingly ineffectual nature.

Yeah, I like that...I am totally ripping off my own idea for use in a future campaign! 

[Gaumer]

Creation – In the beginning, the gods of air, earth, fire and water were as one, with all their power, all the known power of the universe, concentrated and known as the “All-One”; “The Four of One”. There, the four gods learned of the all of their power as it rests in and of itself. They were combined; as one. Coalesced in body; separated in spirit.

As they individually filled their respective minds with all they could in their conjoined state, the four gods detached, each taking their own essences unto themselves, becoming “The One of Four”. With their changings came allowances; opportunities to fill a mind made shallow with experience anew. Each of the one took to themselves, alone.

For a time the gods were content to rely upon their own, singular power, but, as before, the gods grew bored and tired. They sought to reach the ways of old and pool again, hoping that old memories will spark anew what has aged.

The four again and again struggled, but as much as they tried the four could not become one again. No matter how the four embraced, only the four were. But the four pushed on in their futile endeavor. Until, it was seen by the four the spoils of their touches, embraces, blows, and brawls.

Wherever the four had tried and failed something anew had become. Whether it be glowing suns of fire and air, worlds formed by the forces of the four, or peculiar beings wrought into being by forces unknown even to them, the gods were again content; interests piqued.

And each god claimed unto himself that which was seen as his own.

This is about all I got into anything. Sorry, got busy.

I started to do the whole water god thing but didn't have any backstory. I think that is maybe where we should begin.

I think this is a pretty good start to build on to anywhere that can be built on. Yes, it sort of makes everything one big accident, but I think that works. And, if everything is an accident we can pretty much do whatever the hell we want and still have it make sense. "Oh, that planet? Oh yea, it was made when the air god tried to elbow smash the water god. And that one? It was a hickey that fire gave to earth."

[Navarre]

So what are you wanting to work on next?

[Gaumer]

I think we are still on the same path as we were before: Building a pantheon based off of these four, elemental gods, and planets to go along with that.

I just think I maybe needed a starting line to help me out.

But, this creation story can be changed to fit names or specifics that may be needed at any time.

[Tondi-]

Oh do names, names are hard but fun.