fourth edition issues

[madmanmax]

My 4e group has recently reached level 8 and I'm noticing that the combat is beginning to slow down. while 3.5 kept things balanced enough so fights continued moving quickly at higher levels, it seems that 4e fights just get longer while the level goes up. do fights seem to speed up when paragon paths are reached or is this just one of 4e's flaws?

[Tondi-]

I think its a flaw.  The damage output doesn't match monster HP in my opinion.

However it might just be because my players seem to like saving their powers.

[Beta Ray Bill Cosby]

My 4e group has recently reached level 8 and I'm noticing that the combat is beginning to slow down. while 3.5 kept things balanced enough so fights continued moving quickly at higher levels, it seems that 4e fights just get longer while the level goes up. do fights seem to speed up when paragon paths are reached or is this just one of 4e's flaws?

everything's more survivable in 4e so fights can slow down. There's a number of things you can do to speed up a fight, like not use brutes (or solos). If you have a bunch of skirmishers then the fight will go faster, they'll deal a lot of damage, but go down relatively fast.

[@lantis]

By that level, my reading of things is that WotC expects you to be incorporating things like aerial combat and dangerous terrain to keep things both interesting and fast paced.  Falling damage is pretty rough and I believe they expect you to be using it by this point to some effect in fights. 

Since not every fight can be an aerial one, there are terrain features to deal with other fights.  A river of lava, a chasm you can push enemies into, a wall you can knock people off of to a lower level, are all things that can do large amounts of damage to make monsters go down faster.  And it also keeps a sense of danger since the players can be subjected to the same damage.

[Andreas]

By that level, my reading of things is that WotC expects you to be incorporating things like aerial combat and dangerous terrain to keep things both interesting and fast paced.  Falling damage is pretty rough and I believe they expect you to be using it by this point to some effect in fights. 

Since not every fight can be an aerial one, there are terrain features to deal with other fights.  A river of lava, a chasm you can push enemies into, a wall you can knock people off of to a lower level, are all things that can do large amounts of damage to make monsters go down faster.  And it also keeps a sense of danger since the players can be subjected to the same damage.

I love these things - but my players hate being pushed over a cliff. Im lucky that one of my player is extremly innovative when using terrein.

[@lantis]

Well they do get a saving throw against being pushed off the cliff.  Not to mention if the cliff is short enough they'll survive, and if it is high enough they will have a chance to catch themselves before they hit the ground.  There are also magic items which help cliff diving players out a lot.

[Web.Metz]

I know a few Epic Tier encounters that have plenty of cliffs, since by then it is likely that, by then, it is expected that you have something to deal with it.

In fact, there was a particular encounter that took place so high that it took more then 1 round to hit the ground.

[@lantis]

I know a few Epic Tier encounters that have plenty of cliffs, since by then it is likely that, by then, it is expected that you have something to deal with it.

In fact, there was a particular encounter that took place so high that it took more then 1 round to hit the ground.

What is the fall rate?  I never can remember the precise rules for falling.

[Web.Metz]

"A D&D combat round is 6 seconds long, and a body falls just 576 feet (115 squares) in 6 seconds..."
The platform this battle was on was 650 feet (130 squares) in the air.

To be safe, just assume that someone falls 115 squares in a round. That is 11d10 each odd round, 12d10 each even round.

[@lantis]

Your calculations are a bit off.  Fall damage is for every 10 feet, not 10 squares.  So in a round it would be 57d10 damage.

I got curious and checked the Compendium and apparently it is 500ft per round of falling and damage is capped at 50d10.

[Web.Metz]

Your calculations are a bit off.  Fall damage is for every 10 feet, not 10 squares.  So in a round it would be 57d10 damage.

I got curious and checked the Compendium and apparently it is 500ft per round of falling and damage is capped at 50d10.

Gah, got confused there.

Ah, it is under Crashing, that is why I could not remember, and it states 'as a rule of thumb'...so different DMs can have different rules.

[Andreas]

... and damage is capped at 50d10.

LOL - Gandalf got a max of 500 points of dmg. and lost his brains. Wuss.

[@lantis]

... and damage is capped at 50d10.

LOL - Gandalf got a max of 500 points of dmg. and lost his brains. Wuss.

Gandalf probably had some magic to break his fall.  And he was probably an epic tier character and they are like cockroaches.  Impossible to kill.

[Web.Metz]

He had featherfall prepared and cast it 6 seconds before landing.

[Andreas]

Gandalf had to be heroic tier!
Otherwise he would have teleported the fellowship into Mordor. "Plop" goes the ring, and "normality restored" as the heart of gold says.