Intentional Unwed Pregnancies

[Navarre]

Random Controversial Topic #427.

I noticed that within the last week or so, Natalie Portman has announced her unwed pregnancy while her "Black Swan" co-star, Mila Kunis, has stated that she someday wants to have children but does not feel marriage is right for her.

As you might expect, there are many comments flying around on the internet about the morality of such things. They also have their supporters as well.

So, is marriage an archaic concept that has been disproved by its failure rate in our current society? Or is deviation from the concept of only having children in wedlock going to send the whole famn damily straight to Hell?

At least here there can be intelligent discussion, even if it is only of our own opinion. So what do you think?

[Larry King]

I was raised in a good home, my mom and dad were married for years before I was born. I think I turned out all right, I hold down a job, I do well.
Hollywood types I care nothing for, and they could all vanish, and just like a head on a Hydra another will take their place. But back to topic, people are stupid. You don't want kids take birth control, condoms are available as well, or simply don't have sex. If you want kids but no marriage, or male around, that means you usually have money for a wet nurse, nanny, and the like. It's a luxary that the rich can afford. The kids are going to be screwed up, in that household but that's my opinion. You have to parent you child, not buy one, or squat one out, then pass them like a batton, that isn't right, or natural, hence the world going to hell in a handbasket.

[Navarre]

It is certainly easier to raise a child on your own if you have more income than the average person. But that has something to do with the standard of living too. There are married people who are too broke to afford children because they do not manage their money well.

Would it not be a broad generalization to assume that even if the mother could afford a nanny that she will always do so or, further, would leave the child in this person's care instead of investing in the child's care and growth herself?

I'm fairly certain that a statement such as "people are stupid" is not conducive to the conversation. As you and I are people, we would therefore be "stupid" by definition and thus anything we say here would be pointless.

Perhaps taking a more focused approach would allow a better discussion?

[Alisha Mynx]

The way I read Mila's comments, she sounded...   Well, I dunno, but the way I read part of the article rubbed me the wrong way.

I have nothing against single parents or anything.  Heck, I know some single parents who are "better" parents than some other coupled parents.  However, some of those couples are ONLY still together for the kids, which is causing a whole other set of problems for everyone. 

I think the idea of "marriage = family" is kind of outdated.  Not bad or anything, and it's great for those that want and achieve it, I just think it is a little closed-minded when people do think that is the only way to have a good, happy, stable "family".  I'm practically the third parent in my friend's daughter's life.  We may not be blood relatives, but we all consider each other to be as close as a family can be, and I'm closer to them than I am all but one of my blood siblings.

[The Mighty King Cobra]

I don't mind one way or the other.

I think that the implication of snide derision about any pregnancy is just human schadenfreude at best, and since Natalie isn't banging me, it's not really any business of mine who she sleeps with or what the consequences are.

As for marriage, it has become more and more a social/economic partnership than any sort of religious covenant, notably when couples (like my wife and I) don't see eye-to-eye on the religious front in the first place.  For me, at least, marriage as a component of godliness never even occurred to me.

[schleicher12000]

Does it really matter?  In the grand scheme of things - probably not.

What business is it of ours to turn a nose up or down either way on someone who wants to be a parent without being wed?   Does the argument also extend to single parents who were once married and are now divorced, or for that matter someone who was married, only to have their partner taken in a tragedy?  Again, probably not...

I don't know Natalie Portman, I rarely have second thoughts about Natalie Portman, and when I see a woman who is pregnant, I'm certainly not wondering if she is married or simply a person who wasn't smart enough to stay sober at the frat party.  That line of thinking is none of my business.  As long as my rights are infringed, it matters not the least, and I think many would think the same way.

Now if people are making a big deal of Mila's comments in relation to Portman's comments, there are a number of sites out there that just like to dig up trash to create controversy and garner more pageviews.

Moving on...

[Navarre]

I would suspect that most people who have extreme opposition to intentional unwed pregnancies are looking at it from their religious beliefs. But otherwise, I don't know that anyone (certainly not myself, at least) has quantifiable data that supports the argument that children from such unwed pregnancies turn out to be any less healthy, happy, or successful than children from traditional marriages. Unless someone could show me verifiable results on something like that, I can't buy it as a valid argument.

All people need to develop a feeling of self-worth and to feel loved if they are to experience personal growth. As Alisha said, there are many children in traditional families who aren't achieving the growth they deserve because one or both of these factors is missing. Conversely, I don't see anything stopping a child with one parent from feeling loved and developing self-worth.

I think part of the concern for those opposed to that is that the child doesn't develop a sense of what a "family" should be. But, of course, that assumes we all hold the same definition of "family" in our society. Clearly, we do not.

The only part of Stephen's statement I don't believe is that he doesn't think about Natalie Portman. Really? How is that possible? 

[schleicher12000]

Easy... pregnant waifs don't do it for me...

[Navarre]

Yeah, some guys actually find the woman more attractive either while pregnant or after (ie, MILFs). I'm not into either.

So it is a strike against her on my overall Chart of Superficial and Degrading Woman-Judging. But she's still tiny and cute and smart and brunette. Those are all good things.

[Blackthunder01]

"Is marriage an archaic concept that has been disproved by its failure rate in our current society?"  No.  Marriage is still an important part of life for many people.  It's failure rate is more of a reflection of the people of this generation than the concept itself.  If marriage were truely a failure, it would have been failing long before now.

"Or is deviation from the concept of only having children in wedlock going to send the whole famn damily straight to Hell?"  No.  There are many people out there that can raise children in a healthy happy family without it being structured traditionally.

This isn't a case of one or the other.  There is enough room in the world to accomodate both types of people.  I prefer that people who have a child stay together (having come from a broken house) but I don't think they need to be married.

[SpiderLover]

It really does not matter in the grand scheme of things. Single parent or parent couple what does matter is that the child gets what it needs and so on and so forth. Natalie can do as she likes, but if she is ready to settle down I am available.

[Navarre]

Natalie can do as she likes, but if she is ready to settle down I am available.

I think her line of suitors forms to the right. I'll save a place in line for you.

I agree with your and Blackthunder's statements. I know of at least one happily married couple. I know of several not so happily married. I know of one small group in an open marriage. I know of some people who are single and happy being so.

I think everyone needs a family. But I don't feel the definition of "family" has to mean a mother and father wed to each other in a monogamous relationship.

[Blackthunder01]

Relationships should be defined by the people in them.  Legally, however, there has to be rules in place so that people don't abuse the privledges while trying to avoid the draw backs.  So in the end, live the way that makes you happy but expect the government to make you conform to their rules if you want to reap their rewards.

Naturally, the only time I oppose what I just said is when people get hurt.  But that too has to be taken on a per case basis.

[greyman24]

Here's the thing about marriage:

1. It's short-hand for a lot of things. You can say, "I'm in a committed relationship where we split everything we own, have included each other in our wills, have each other on the registration for our car(s), live with each other, made each other executor in our living wills, etc," or you can just say, "We're married." Not being married, but being the same thing as married is a whole lot more work, legally, and is far more ambiguous, socially. This is the reason I thought the whole "civil union" thing was just silly. It was like saying, "Let's make exactly the same thing as marriage, but we won't CALL it that!" That's like saying, "I'm not late on December's utility bill, I'm paying March's bill early!"

2. Legally tying yourself to another person makes everything more real. You haven't just committed yourself in word, you've made it tough to separate yourself. And if you've truly committed yourself to it (no separate accounts, splitting ownership of everything, etc.), then it absolutely does and should impact the relationship.

3. I do find it puzzling when people say they aren't ready for the commitment of marriage, but want to have a child. From true, hard-fought experience, having a child is a MUCH greater commitment that you have a MUCH harder time backing out of (I mean, adoption is always a possibility, but doing it when you hit your "seven year itch" is a bit tougher).

4. Who cares what rich people do? Comparing your life to theirs is like comparing my life to a pygmy elephant's.

[Navarre]

2. Legally tying yourself to another person makes everything more real.

I understand your point but I don't agree with that. Being legally married doesn't make me more committed, only more obligated. Commitment and Obligation are not the same thing.

I want to stay with a person because I feel love and commitment toward them, not because it would be difficult to leave due to both our names being on the mortgage.