Comic Books haven't changed in the past 30 years

[Beta Ray Bill Cosby]

From the MSP 261 discussion: Are comics the same as they were 30 years ago?

Discuss!

[Navarre]

Certainly the printing techniques have improved but the actual content is more important. Comics, like most stories, tend to reflect the times in which we live. They wish to be seem as both relateable and relevant.

In the early eras we tended to get straight-forward good guy vs bad guy stories that were consistent with the time. Bank robbers and Nazis are bad people and heroes stopped them. It was largely that simple and no one could expect anything more.

Thirty years ago would have been nearly ten years after the introduction of the Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, and the X-Men. These characters introduced heroes with significant imperfections and they were immediately accepted. They represented a time when people realized the simplicity of the world wasn't really simple at all.

In the following decades, comics became darker and so did the characters. Mirroring our violent times and our feelings of isolation in the world, we were introduced to anti-heroes who personified what many readers experienced in their own lives.

Characters like Wolverine, Spawn, Punisher, and Deadpool came to be the "heroes" of interest. Perhaps it was because they represented that suppressed desire to strike back at an increasingly harsh world that seemed far beyond our control. This is the same sort of world personified in the Civil War and Dark Reign sagas; a world of corruption where even the heroes couldn't agree on what they represented anymore.

So, I certainly believe comics have changed a great deal in the past thirty years in that regard.

However, I have lately been seeing something a little bit different. I am seeing comics make an attempt to return their heroes and stories to the values of yesteryear.

The so-called Heroic Age is slowly giving us characters that exemplify the traits of true heroism should one be asked to describe that. They work together. They fight recognizable villains and obvious crime. They have hope.

From the publisher's standpoint, the purpose of printing comic books is to sell comic books. To do this they must give the reader what they want.

So, even though the world seems no less dark or complex, I think comics are giving us something new: Not a reflection of the world as it is but a vision of the world as we wish it to be.

That is a very powerful thing that we haven't seen in comic books for a long time. I hope it manifests into a new generation of idealistic comic readers and reignite optimism in long-time fans.

Comic books have had an incredible impact on many of us for most of our lives. As we change over time, so do they. I hope both are always for the better.

[greyman24]

Still a couple episodes behind, but, if I have my comics history straight, 1980 is right on the slope of darkness, beginning the movement from the so-called "bronze age" and into the next age. Neal Adams and Denny O'Neill had already begun working on Batman. Chris Claremont relaunched X-Men 5 years before.

But we're still a few years away from the Storm being okay with killing or Frank Miller doing Return of the Dark Knight. And, of course, we're still 5 years away from Crisis.

Today, it seems pretty far from that semi-transitional moment.

[andrew wiggins]

i think that the past 30 years comics have changed we still have the under laying good guy vs bad guy but in the early 90s i want to say we see more anti hero types become popular like deadpool and wolvrine and punisher i mean iron man becomes a drunkered in the 2000s/1990s now it more evil vs lesser evil dude. hellboy is kinda a anti hero/pure hero he doesnt like what he may become but tries to deal with it the best way he can much like we all do. i think there has been a move to make our heros more "human" i really want to see that superman that never made the wrong choice and save the earth not because he was saving himself in the process but because it was the right thing to do.

[Gaumer]

If comics are the mirror of pop-culture iconography that I have always equated them to be then I do not think comics have changed at all.

They reflect the current atmosphere of the real world and explore that atmosphere with characters that we understand, sometimes better than we understand anything or anyone else.

From that standpoint, I'm not sure if we can tell for sure if comics have moved away from that. Not until we have a solid understanding of recent history, which cannot be totally understood until it is studied in its own historical context, and a knowledge of how the comics of that era reflect in the way previous generation's comics have.

Although, a lot of the comic enthusiasts I hear and see get too caught up on their comics making more sense in the context of other comics and not so much the comics interpretation in the context of real life history.

[Blackthunder01]

Comics have changed DRAMATICALLY since the 80's.  There are so many facetts that I may have trouble listing them all and keeping my mind on the right track when trying to explain some of it.  I'll try to list a few things that I've noticed:

1. Obviously the paper and ink are much differnet through all 3 decades.

2. The art is vastly improved IMO.  I couldn't touch a comic from the 80's.  I never could.  It was only when the 90's came along that I could tolerate the artwork.  The colors were so flat looking in the 80's and pages were often crowded with too much or way too little background art.  The 90's saw an improvement with inks that brought a dimension to the comics that didn't give that crowded feeling for me.  In the 00's, I don't have this problem at all.  Maybe the digital perfected dimension to me.

3. The stories in the 80's were dark and brooding.  90's were EXTREME!!! with pop culture character personalities. 00's were more about Drama and OMG story telling.

4. 80's had what I call experimental art in little known books or non-monthly titles.  90's saw more of the experimental types making names for themselves and starting their own companies.  00's has a ton of differnet styles working on every type of book from mainstream to indie, often with indie having some of the best talent.

damn ... can't write any more.  At work.  but this is what I think of when i think of this topic.

[Larry King]

I am currently reading comics from the late 70's early 80's(ROM, Spaceknight for example) and I have to say that they have changed. In the Bill Mantlo written, and Sal Buscema drawn issues of ROM, that are usually 17 pages they tell more story than most comics do in 3 issues. They are dense to say the least, and if you don't expect that going in you will get fed up. We have been spoiled by decompression, and artist driven narrative, where splash pages once proliforated. I like my old stuff, and if I had to choose I'd stick with it and give up the new fan driven material, that's not to say that there where no fans writing comics 30 years ago but to the degree of today's current state it blown up.

[Otter Disaster]

In the Bill Mantlo written, and Sal Buscema drawn issues of ROM, that are usually 17 pages they tell more story than most comics do in 3 issues. They are dense to say the least, and if you don't expect that going in you will get fed up. We have been spoiled by decompression, and artist driven narrative, where splash pages once proliforated.

Agreed.

Monthly, 'floppy' comics have certainly changed in the last 30 years, and one of the biggest shifts is in story density and the dramatic reduction in panel count as a result of decompressed story telling.  Used to be you'd get a complete story beginning/middle/end every month (with some ongoing subplots), now that same tale will be told over 6 issues (with 3 or 4 ongoing subplots). 

Beginning in the 1980s Japanese Comics/Manga became more easily available in the US. Artistically, American comics began seeing more of those influences appearing over the same period, elements of which have been insinuating themselves into American comics to a significant degree ever since.  Decompressed storytelling is a hallmark of Manga where they were 'writing for the trade' much sooner that we were here.  Manga influenced anatomy and costume design also became a big influence on American Comics especially beginning in the 90s, notably by creators who'd read a lot of manga in the 80s. 

The black and white boom, and indy booms of the early 80s also helped expand the available and accepted genres of comics beyond Superhero and Kiddie books. That era gave us TMNT, Cerebus, Love and Rockets, First Comics, Eclipse Comics, and other indies who ended up paving the way for Image in the 90s.

[andrew wiggins]

mangas also where written for like a weekly annual and then collected into trades

[Tondi-]

One of the biggest changes I noticed when I decided to check out the X-Men comics from their origins onward is the treatment of women.

Originally women where prim and proper and then at some time something must have happened cause things got sexified real quick.  I remember the first time cyc and jean kissed seemed like a pretty big deal.

One of the things that amused me the most was the changing fashions. 

Another major change is the move to long arcs and events.  Done in 1s was the norm back in the day from the look of things.

[Navarre]

Another major change is the move to long arcs and events.  Done in 1s was the norm back in the day from the look of things.

I really miss picking up an issue of a given series and getting a complete story or at least something wrapped up in a few issues with a larger arc worked into it. Nowadays one usually gets epic arcs that consume the title and three others along with it.

I think it inhibits the ability for the book to slow down and let us get to know the characters better because everyone is too busy saving the universe.

[Larry King]

I really miss picking up an issue of a given series and getting a complete story or at least something wrapped up in a few issues with a larger arc worked into it. Nowadays one usually gets epic arcs that consume the title and three others along with it.

I think it inhibits the ability for the book to slow down and let us get to know the characters better because everyone is too busy saving the universe.

That's is why I love back issue diving, you can find those stories, even on the first page most of the time they'd tell you all you need to know. But now you have to know the full story leading up to it, and the comics it's tied into, and then you might have a chance.

[greyman24]

Another major change is the move to long arcs and events.  Done in 1s was the norm back in the day from the look of things.

I really miss picking up an issue of a given series and getting a complete story or at least something wrapped up in a few issues with a larger arc worked into it. Nowadays one usually gets epic arcs that consume the title and three others along with it.

I think it inhibits the ability for the book to slow down and let us get to know the characters better because everyone is too busy saving the universe.

Reminds me of one of my favorite X-Men books. Don't remember which title (although I think it was Uncanny) or which issue (although I believe it was in the 1990's), but in it, Prof X had a very short period of time where he could walk. He was wandering the grounds when he happened upon Jubilee. She tried to teach him to use roller skates. Anyone remember this issue?

It wound up being a very poignant and beautiful story, and it could only be told in because there was no huge crossover.

[tidge]

Are comics the same as they were 30 years ago?

I'm quite far behind in the podcast listening, but I think there is a huge difference from "30 years" ago, and almost no difference from "15 years" ago.

As was mentioned: Panel Count, Paper Quality are obvious. Price is weird to gauge: compared to printed books, I think comics scale evenly, but compared to other "at home" entertainment options like video games (yes, we had those 30 years ago), movies, music..comics are more expensive relatively speaking.

I'm not sure that the direct market for comics even existed in 1980!

As far as comic content: I think even before Elfquest and the like there were examples of what we'd now think of as "Indy" comics, but they were disguised as newspaper comics (Zippy, Nancy, Brenda Starr) or "funny books" (Mad). The biggest revolution for most of us was the "Editor-in-Chief" that made the BIG TWO universes hang together in ways that hadn't really been seen (except possibly in the early 60's Marvel days).

I had the (mis)fortune to read the collected edition of something I'd skipped originally: DC Comics "Our Worlds at War". This book from about a decade ago was essentially the same warmed-over "event" that we'd been getting for years (Millenium, Death of the Mutants, etc. etc.) and we've been getting since (Secret Invasion, Blackest Night). In the 1980's the "event" hadn't happened yet...but by 1989 it seemed like we had become trapped in "the event" cycle and have yet to escape.

[Alisha Mynx]

I really miss picking up an issue of a given series and getting a complete story or at least something wrapped up in a few issues with a larger arc worked into it. Nowadays one usually gets epic arcs that consume the title and three others along with it.

I know what you mean.  I miss those sort of stories even more now that I don't get to pick up comics quite as often as I used to.  On one hand, I can pick up multiple issues at a time and get a whole story instead of getting them on the day they come out and having to wait a month for the next part, and that's fine once in a while.  But I really like to be able to pick up a comic series I like and be able to get a full story in one or two issues max, with the huge event being a special treat once in a while.   Now it's backwards, with the small stories being the treat that we have to wait for.

I don't mind an ongoing sub-plot, but the huge events all the time make it a lot harder to enjoy some of the books I've never tried before or jumping into a series I haven't read in a while.