What Does "Genre" Mean to You?

[greyman24]

Working in the book business, it was always considered a double-edged sword to be associated with a particular category. The fiction section of most book stores is broken down pretty much into what is often loosely referred to as "genre fiction" (Romance, Mystery or Sci Fi/Fantasy) and then bestselling fiction. Once an author cracks the bestsellers list, she rarely stays with the genre books.

What do George Orwell, Neil Gaiman, and Neal Stevenson all have in common? They all write sci fi books and are regularly shelved in the "fiction & literature" section of Barnes & Noble instead of "sci fi/fantasy".

This ghettoization of content means that there's more theoretical potential for upsell/impulse buys (debatable), but also means that it can be tough for a publisher/author to find the correct audience. Case in point: mystery comics in TPB. Darwin Cooke said he made his Richard Parker adaptation look just like a standard hardcover so it wouldn't languish with the "Graphic Novels" that are generally stuffed somewhere at the end of the sci fi/fantasy books.

So what does the word "genre" mean to you? Does it mean what most book store buyers think (falling into the categories above), or can it be expanded? If so, to what?

[Gaumer]

That is a really good question.

I was at Barnes & Noble just yesterday and I couldn't understand how or why they would lump every bit of Fantasy and Sci-Fi together. I was looking for some sci-fi military sort of book that wasn't Warhammer or Halo. Not bashing them just looking for something not in its own context. I couldn't make head's or tail over why they would lump R.A. Salvatore's The Halfling's Gem on the same shelf as Starship Troopers...WTF?

I really believe that this is another reason online shopping for books has become so popular. Its like unless you know exactly what you are after by title then you have no chance of finding the exact thing you want.

So genre to me means very, very little the way book stores use it. Asimov and Adams both wrote some great sci-fi but I wouldn't put them for sale together on the same shelf.

But I'm also not sure that sub-genre overload is the best method either. It would work for me, but I can see other people walking around lost because they can't find shit in the shelves because the sci-fi section now has 15 sub-sections

I also do not have faith in publishers or bookstore executives not using the system to push a book that doesn't fit in the sub-genre.

Then you have books that may fit in more than one genre. Where do you put that?

What about a series of books that sort of changes gears and may make it suitable to put the first book of a series in a different sub-genre than its sequel?

So genre may mean a little something. I'm know fairly certainly that I don't need anything from the romance section or the foreign language section. But my 9 year old went to the young readers section and wanted some fantasy and we had to dive through the shelves and really look for a book that may be in that genre. So much so that he gave up and grabbed book 1 in the 39 Clues series. But I found Ranger Apprentice eventually but then it was too late to sway him.

If they would have had a young reader's fantasy section we would have found it straight away and he would have gotten the book.

[Slappy]

Sorting Genres is just a system of classification used by humans in their vain attempt to make sense of something that can not hold relevance for very long.
Within each genre, you always fall into subgenres.
After a while each system of classification must break down because the human race has not moved beyond certain points and can not truly grasp the technicalities of a classification system beyond point X.

[Blackthunder01]

Genre to me is either specific or general. 

General: Fiction, Non-fiction, Biography, Cooking (the way a book is written)
Non-Specific: Horror, Science Fiction, Romance (the content of what is written)

[greyman24]

Don't get me started on the subject of classification, taxonomy, and ontological hierarchies. It's something I can go on for hours about.

Yeah, Gaumer, the whole system has these presuppositions baked into it.

So, Barnes & Noble (and Borders) has a team of buyers: usually assigned by subject area/genre. The buyers receive these formalized data streams from their primary distributors (called "jobbers") that include summaries, publicity info and recommendations for classification. The summaries and recommendations come from the publishers (usually marketing/sales managers working with editors working with authors).

Finding a genre/classification is a tight rope act. If you're a publisher, you know your book will more likely sell in one location, but you also know that if the buyer disagrees with you, it'll either sit on his desk indefinitely (waiting to go to the person he thinks SHOULD review it) or he'll just skip it.

As far as places like B&N go, they don't care as they REQUIRE publishers/distributors to accept returns for stock that doesn't sell (with some exceptions). If a book gets shopworn (from being moved around on the shelf or thumbed through) or it just isn't selling, they return it back to the jobber and get their money back.

[Gaumer]

WOW! Do all retailers do that and all publishers accept it?

I could see the big name retailers demanding returns on unsold goods, Wal-Mart does it all the time and gets away with it because they are so big, but does that really work for the box store booksellers?

If that's the case then there may still be hope for returns of unsold comic books

*EDIT*: I've also just recently (like 2 days or so ago) started using http://www.goodreads.com/

Hooked up with a few people on some other networks and have already noticed that they narrow down genres very nicely.

[greyman24]

Love Good Reads. They make it really easy to CROSS genres, too. You ever check out BookCrossing.com? It's like geo caching, but with books. Very cool.

It's been accepted business for awhile. It's one of the reasons why small pubs find it so tough to break into big box stores. Pubs always bitch about it and accuse B&N/Borders of using the returns to make their quarter numbers (something that is very much a possibility), but it isn't like it stops them.

That's why bargain books are such big business. All those returns are then resold by lot to secondary markets (and sometimes back into the big box stores) as non-returnable, but at a substantial discount. If you see a hard cover bestseller or a hard cover by a big name author that's marked down to $5-$6 in a pharmacy or piled up in a dollar store, chances are it's a return that got resold.

Doubtful that comics will ever be returnable...at least the monthlies. They're too fragile, and the margin on them (compared to books) are pretty thin.

[Beta Ray Bill Cosby]

I tend not to pay attention to genres and just follow recommendations. Music is pretty bad about this too, what's the difference between a Taylor Swift single and a Katy Perry single? Twang. Mechanically speaking they are both Rock n' Roll (4/4 signature, guitar/drum/bass rhythm, etc.) but largely because of lyric subject matter and marketing they are considered part of two separate genres.

[Gaumer]

As a Nashville resident I've noticed that location is used to give music a genre in some cases.

If Katy Perry recorded in Nashville as Taylor does she become a country artist?

If an artist wants a certain sound they go to L.A.; if they want the 'twang' referred to above they come to Nashville.

In this instance, I'd say that other people beside the actual media creator (the musician) have less impact on the genre than the writer of a book. A publisher wouldn't have as much impact on the genre of a book as a producer, or even a songwriter, would have on the genre of a song.

We have a local radio show here in Nashville that spotlights local songwriters and I have heard at least one say that a song they wrote for a country artist was purchased by a pop artist and simply made into a pop song in the studio.


But this comparison leads me to say that both music and books provide the 'popular' genre. Billboard's top 100 (hot 100...whatever), which gathers its music from other charts, is comparable to 'best-seller' lists for books and whatnot. But somewhere in the process these things don't do the job of getting information to the consumer.

[Navarre]

If Katy Perry recorded in Nashville as Taylor does she become a country artist?

No, but if it meant I'd have to be labeled as a country fan to drool over her I'd live with it.

[Aubreii]

Genre is very important to me in the early stages of choice.  I make a choice first of all based on my most loved genres.  I then move sideways into choices that either subvert or cross genres.  I'll give you an example.  I like historical fiction, so primarily I read about old battles and historical figures or fiction set in historical times.  Now if someone was to mention an author like Lindsey Davis who does a very good series on a roman detective, I'd move that way rather then go looking fro detective fiction myself.  That way I know I am looking at something that will at least pique my interest.

This does not mean that I refuse to make choices outside of my comfort zone.  Some of the best books I have ever read have been far out of my intitial area of choice.  My choices are informed by genre, recommendation and chance. 

I do most of my 'genre' buys on impulse.  I know an author I like has a book coming out, one day i'll pop in and pick it up.  Conversely If I know that an author has released something that is in another genre outside their normal work, I'll pick it up and that may help me make further choices in the future.

[Slappy]

I tend not to pay attention to genres and just follow recommendations. Music is pretty bad about this too, what's the difference between a Taylor Swift single and a Katy Perry single? Twang. Mechanically speaking they are both Rock n' Roll (4/4 signature, guitar/drum/bass rhythm, etc.) but largely because of lyric subject matter and marketing they are considered part of two separate genres.

Very often, an artist will record multiple versions of the same song IE Taylor Swift & "Love Story" in order to appeal to a wider audience.  One version will be more country while others are more pop or rock.
These different versions will in turn be shipped to different radio station genres thereby crossingover to an audience of wider appeal.

[Orillion]

That is a really good question.

I was at Barnes & Noble just yesterday and I couldn't understand how or why they would lump every bit of Fantasy and Sci-Fi together. I was looking for some sci-fi military sort of book that wasn't Warhammer or Halo. Not bashing them just looking for something not in its own context. I couldn't make head's or tail over why they would lump R.A. Salvatore's The Halfling's Gem on the same shelf as Starship Troopers...WTF?

I really believe that this is another reason online shopping for books has become so popular. Its like unless you know exactly what you are after by title then you have no chance of finding the exact thing you want.

So genre to me means very, very little the way book stores use it. Asimov and Adams both wrote some great sci-fi but I wouldn't put them for sale together on the same shelf.

But I'm also not sure that sub-genre overload is the best method either. It would work for me, but I can see other people walking around lost because they can't find shit in the shelves because the sci-fi section now has 15 sub-sections

I also do not have faith in publishers or bookstore executives not using the system to push a book that doesn't fit in the sub-genre.

Then you have books that may fit in more than one genre. Where do you put that?

What about a series of books that sort of changes gears and may make it suitable to put the first book of a series in a different sub-genre than its sequel?

So genre may mean a little something. I'm know fairly certainly that I don't need anything from the romance section or the foreign language section. But my 9 year old went to the young readers section and wanted some fantasy and we had to dive through the shelves and really look for a book that may be in that genre. So much so that he gave up and grabbed book 1 in the 39 Clues series. But I found Ranger Apprentice eventually but then it was too late to sway him.

If they would have had a young reader's fantasy section we would have found it straight away and he would have gotten the book.

On a side note, Gaumer, if you're not familiar with his work, John Ringo does some good Military SF.  I suggest starting with "A Hymn Before Battle." 

But back on topic, I definitely agree with Aubreii.  I'm almost entirely rooted in SF/Fantasy genre to start.  I've moved sideways into some of Turtledove's alternate history stuff, and I use it primarily as a starting point for books I like. 

To me, a genre is just a general grouping of the subjects/themes of books.  And I can understand why the SF/Fantasy section always exists.  In general, those who like one will enjoy the other, and the overall idea is very similar.  Take a concept about an entirely new world with interesting technologies or forces (magic, for example), and populate it with identifiable characters.

[Gaumer]

Nice.

Thank you for the suggestion. I'll check on him next time I get out to the book store.