Spider-Man: The Marvel Batman?

[theSuperAlbino]

Before the Batman fanatics swoop down and take me away let me explain. When reading Matthew's retro review of Spider-Man #160 I began thinking that Spidey has had some crazy stories in his time. Growing 6-Arms, Fighting Galactus, The Kangaroo. Basically my thought is this, can and is Spidey like Batman, can Spidey be dropped in any situation and make it seem natural, or should he stick to being the down on his luck guy who is closer to real life?

[Gaumer]

can Spidey be dropped in any situation and make it seem natural, or should he stick to being the down on his luck guy who is closer to real life?

Can't it be both? I read Astonishing Spidey/Wolvie and then I read Amazing and I see that both are happening.

With the amount of time Spidey has been around and the things he has gone through it would seem almost unrealistic to have Spidey be surprised by any situation that he encounters. Experience makes you jaded. But having him as the down and out guy is just classic Spidey. You'd think the two would butt heads and make the character unreadable but he's pulled through regardless.

That said, I see Spidey as driving by the seat of his pant more than the Batman does. Batman seems to have a plan ALL of the time. When Spidey has a plan its more like a huge deal that he had a plan. But even that is subjective to the current status quo and even the title that Spidey is appearing in at the time.

[Blackthunder01]

If you're comparing one aspect of a superhero to another, it's quite possible that Marvel has about 20 different people who could accurately be compared to Batman.  (Moon Knight and Ironman are the ones that come to the front of my mind.)

[greyman24]

I think what you're saying is a comparison of the settings both characters work in: one approximating our every day real life and one that is more fantastical.

I agree with some others that there are many characters that straddle those types of settings, but I also think it hurts Batman far more than it does for Spidey.

Now, I'm not necessarily a devotee of the "Batman should only be a grim and gritty dipwad character" camp, but I think he loses something when he tries to operate on a cosmic scale. The only way he can work well is if the writer does some kind of narrative gymnastics or tries to pull the card Matthew hates (give Batman 15 minutes to prepare and he's UNSTOPPABLE!).

Spidey, because his origins are not as...mundane (for lack of a better term) as Batman's, and because he has actual super powers (although his "relative strength of a spider" seems to grow or lessen depending on the plot...as does his toughness), seems like it'd be easier to drop him into every situation.

Honestly, I always thought this "I'm out of my depth, because I'm just a guy down on his luck!" thing was more manufactured than just having him go with the flow. I mean, he's had the "power cosmic". He's good friends with the Fantastic Four. Even before he was ON the Avengers, he fought with them.

There's only so many times you can cry poor before someone calls you on that Ferrari you own.

[theSuperAlbino]

If you're comparing one aspect of a superhero to another, it's quite possible that Marvel has about 20 different people who could accurately be compared to Batman.  (Moon Knight and Ironman are the ones that come to the front of my mind.)

I'm more commenting on Batman's ability to be put in almost any situation and make it work for his character. For instance, Batman can be a pirate and it would be interesting because it's Batman the Pirate. Moon Knight however, couldn't do that. Same with Iron Man, to a lesser extent (Make him a pirate and he loses the thing that makes him unique, his suit.)

[greyman24]

I'm more commenting on Batman's ability to be put in almost any situation and make it work for his character. For instance, Batman can be a pirate and it would be interesting because it's Batman the Pirate. Moon Knight however, couldn't do that. Same with Iron Man, to a lesser extent (Make him a pirate and he loses the thing that makes him unique, his suit.)

I agree, but the settings selected for Batman in the return of Bruce Wayne storyline aren't as whacked out as some of the silver age settings. They're basically allegorical to a certain kind of story that might happen in Gotham (eg., they're not involving aliens who just LOVE peanut butter). Ever since the 70's the main Batman books have shied away from the more extremely fantastical sci fi stories. If he was dealing with an extra-terrestrial menace, 9 times out of 10 it was with the Justice League.

[theSuperAlbino]

Matthew summed it up perfectly in the podcast. Batman is one of the few characters where each of his ongoings have a specific purpose. Batman is Batman being a general super-hero, Detective is for the detective side of Batman, JLA is Batman on a team. Even Spider-Man can't do that, all his series were simply "Spidey being Spidey."

[Gaumer]

Isn't it better when a character is just being that character and not some changing thing?

[greyman24]

Isn't it better when a character is just being that character and not some changing thing?

Yeah. Gotta agree with you.

In order for Batman to even work outside of the "street level", non-super-powered rogues from Gotham, he needs to become much more than he is normally. That's why he has to suddenly also become this techie wizard who can design VTOL aircraft and space stations (not to mention bat-shark repellant!). Basically, he needs to morph into Iron Man at that point. Not that there's anything wrong with Batman as Iron Man, but it's odd to have 2 or more different versions of the same character appearing in books AT THE SAME TIME.

For me, the point was theSuperAlbino's "...and seem natural" part. If the character can act the same as he always does, it's way more natural than having to change his abilities and attitude in order to adapt.

[theSuperAlbino]

What you need to keep in mind is that, for years Batman has "seemed normal" as a super-hero, detective, and on a team because those have all become parts of his character. Just as Iron Man is a super-hero, technical mastermind, and team leader. Which is why I agree with their being a Batman, Detective, and Batman & Robin book, they all fill a certain niche.

[Odinson76]

Dont forget that in Secret Wars, Spidey had not time to think of a plan of attack and took on all the x-men at the same time and clobbered them.  I Doubt the Bat could do that.  And he did not need to shout "I am the Gawd Damn Spider!!" while he was doing it.

[aerspyder]

If I may, I think this has veered away from the point of the thread.  Spider-man is similar to Batman in that you can have the Spiderman out punch the baddies, Spider-man out think the baddies, Spider-man out invent the baddies, Spider-man work with a team on Galactic stuff, & work alone to deal with Galactic stuff and it all feels natural. 

Captain America feels weird when doing Space stuff and he is not on a team.  Luke Cage, Danny Rand, Thor (recently), & even Iron man feels a little unnatural when they are not on a team and dealing with space stuff.  Spider-man just took on the Juggernaut and Captain Universe and it was natural & entertaining without straining the character in the least. 

[Navarre]

Spider-Man is a plug-and-play character. He fits in any storyline.

[Odinson76]

So he is Batman.

[aerspyder]

I think ItsJustSomeRandomGuy said it best. 

Paraphrase

Batman – “At the end of the day (superman) is one of the most powerful people on the planet and (batman) am on of the richest.  Spider-man has neither of those things.”