The Sentry

[Navarre]

Green Arrow came first in 1941. Hawkeye wasn't around until 1964.

The comparisons between Green Arrow and Hawkeye come, I think, not just from their archerery but also from their gruff exteriors. But there are differences to the character if the readers looks beyond the bow and quiver.

I do not see much similarity between Superman and the Sentry at all. I think it is only in regards to the physical prowess of a flying man in a cape that the comparison is made.

There is a tendency for people to label and group others based on the most obvious physical characteristic. This may even be a biological tendency. But that doesn't make it right.

Powerhouses in capes are not any more alike than all archers are alike, or all patriots with shields or all people of a certain race.

It becomes incumbent upon the writer however to show us the differences. We can only know as much about a character as what the writer gives us.

I think the writers have done a more than adequate job of showing us the many differences between the Sentry and Superman. The next trick is to help us care about the Sentry, regardless of who he is.

[Gaumer]

I don't care for the Superman comparisons because that demeans Superman. Powersets are similar, sure, but Ms. Marvel also has Superman-esque powers and I do not often hear that comparison. The difference is that Superman has grown as a character through decades of storytelling and the Sentry has gotten lost in a decades worth of events that squeeze all the time out of telling a story that can help define Sentry.

But thats a problem too: Once Sentry overcomes his mental issue he then becomes a plain Jane, born on Earth Kryptonian...and maybe that's the reason no one has addressed him.

I don't mind the "whinyness" because attitude stems from his mental instability, and that makes sense, but its the same thing with the Spider-Man BND: just because a character's attitude is justified with his circumstance doesn't mean that the character will be embraced.

I agree with the McGuffin idea presented earlier, but I still feel that the character of the Sentry can become a powerful and inspirational character if given the chance.

Here's hoping that the Age of Heroes or whatever the hell it is Marvel has cooking up after SIEGE makes that happen.

[Slappy]

I see I started some minor Geek Rage here.  But I stick by the idea that Sentry is another in a long line of Superman clones, copies, whatever you wish to call them that started quite famously with Captain Marvel in the 40's.

Even when Captain Marvel was more popular than Superman, he was still struck down by copyright laws. 
Superman- Super Stregnth, Super Speed, Super Senses, Flies, Super Breath, Heat Vision, X-Ray Vision.
Martian Manhunter- Super Stregnth, Super Speed, Super Senses, Flies, Shape Changer, Mental Powers, Martian Vision
Captain Marvel-  Super Stregnth, Super Speed, Super Senses, Flies, Wisdom, Magic Thunderbolt
Sentry - Super Stregnth, Super Speed, Super Senses, Flies, Shines Light, Mental Powers, Molecule Man Powers?

Superman was the first and the comparison will continue as long as comics go on.  You can go comic book guy and delve into minutae, but the basis is there.

[Aubreii]

Has Superman grown? I'm not a fan of DC on the whole, I like Smallville but I tend to stay away from the comics as I can't invest in them as a reader.  I like some of the art, especially the Alex Ross stuff.  I must admit I think honestly, sentry has the potential to be more interesting than Superman.  Unfortunately that potential is unrealised.

I think my penchant for Marvel over DC is down to more variety in characters and characterisations.

[Navarre]

One of the things that seemed to set Marvel Comics out from many of its competitors right from the start was that they focused as much or more on the person as on the costumed persona.

Peter Parker, the X-Men, and the Fantastic Four spent much of their time dealign with personal issues. Conversely, much of Superman's dilemmas revolved around only hiding his identity and whatever color of kryptonite he faced that issue.

As for whether or not Superman has grown as a character, I can't really say. I don't read his titles.

But I suspect that there have been at least some writers who have explored Clark's character quite well. No doubt one of the Superman fans here could give you better details.

And I have seen no signs of geek rage here, minor or otherwise. It appears to me that everyone is intelligently and respectfully discussing what defines and distinguishes heroes, with the Sentry being the example in this thread.

[Slappy]

Depending upon your definition of grown he has and has not.  His incarnations and history changes with the different Universe shaping events.  Characters are wiped out and brought back with each new history.  He has changed powers, died, returned, married, been the sole survivor, Had a cit of his people come back, sole survivor and has a city of people again.  It is a loop that constantly changes, but remains the same at the center.
Remember Superman couldn't even fly until the mid-forties.  That is where the leap tall buildings in a single bound came in.

Has he changed, for the most part no.  Only the situations around him really have.

[Navarre]

It often seems that the more iconic characters change the least. I am not sure if that is good or bad.

Superman, Captain America, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc are in many ways the same character they were at the start. Yet the better writers have taken the character on a journey that has allowed us to explore the world through that character in a way that wasn't previously done.

Generally, character changes are a good thing as long as they are realistic for the character. Other times radical changes seem forced for the sake of the story.

Storm sporting a mohawk and wearing biker duds comes to mind.

The Sentry is in a difficult position because he has characteristics that are generally attributed to the iconic characters, such as Superman. Yet unless we see the character exploration he needs he cannot fit that iconic mold.

I am not, and never have been, a fan of the Sentry. I am however very intrigued by his mental challenges.

I wonder, what if the Sentry were not so Superman-like; not at near god-level? What if he had the power of, say, Luke Cage?

Would we be more sympathetic toward a character who didn't show godly potential but was instead closer to the common man? Would we be more interested in his mental illness if he couldn't move planets and tangle with the Hulk?

[Marvel2099]

If you go onto Marvel's website and look at the comic previews for this week you would have seen what happened between Norman and the Sentry during his first visit.  The original issue ended when the two exited the room with Sentry's wife.  However in the next issue you see what Norman meant by "something that will make you very happy."  Norman gives the Sentry a serum that is supposedly the same formula that created him in the first place.  However when he drinks it, it doesn't look to good.

This could explain how the Sentry seems to have gained more powers in the Dark Avengers comic, as this scene was made before all the fights that the Avengers got into.

There is also a scene with moses and the final plague and the full page spread with a bright light, with black lightning and the words "There is only one true God".  I think this is more to do with SIEGE and attacking the Gods of Asgard or it might turn out to be about the Sentry.  It wouldn't be the first time Marvel has used religion as the origin of a superhero.  For Example Ghost Rider, who is an angel.

[Navarre]

I haven't read any of that but I think it would totally undermine the real potential for this character if he instead turned out to be some divine force. It is the human frailty behind the uber-power that makes him interesting.

[Marvel2099]

I don't know, like it says on the front cover it might be due to the issue being a "SIEGE Tie in".  However I forgot to put something Norman says "It doesn't work on anyone else.  You're like Captain America in that way."  So maybe that's why the serum only works on the Sentry.  He is sometimes called the Golden Avenger. 

You will have to wait until Wednesday  . (I'll have to wait until Saturday:( )

[Navarre]

You will have to wait until Wednesday  . (I'll have to wait until Saturday:( )

You need to move to the United States.

... On second thought, don't. It's not worth it just for the comics.

I will say that at least the Sentry has people talking. Hard to get that kind of mileage out of Ares.

[Gaumer]

The Sentry is in a difficult position because he has characteristics that are generally attributed to the iconic characters, such as Superman. Yet unless we see the character exploration he needs he cannot fit that iconic mold.

I am not, and never have been, a fan of the Sentry. I am however very intrigued by his mental challenges.

I wonder, what if the Sentry were not so Superman-like; not at near god-level? What if he had the power of, say, Luke Cage?

Would we be more sympathetic toward a character who didn't show godly potential but was instead closer to the common man? Would we be more interested in his mental illness if he couldn't move planets and tangle with the Hulk?

I cannot agree more, Nav. Its not people's fault though, Marvel made him out to be this badass thing and he wasn't. But that's Marvel's entire bag: show the drawbacks, the negative aspects of having power, and the more power the bigger the drawback. Its on that level that Sentry has so much potential.

Its hard to not make comparisons to Supes but I still think they are unfounded. And, no. No geek rage. I save that for the Wolverine discussions and wouldn't waste it on a Sentry discussion.
I stand down on that opinion until Marvel makes something happen with the character. Hopefully, when they address him properly the distinctions will present themselves.

People don't feel compassion for him cause he hasn't been allowed to be seen in a way where compassion is due. All we see is him freak out and run away, and although knowing who the hero Bob was before and knowing what he is struggling with by being hindered by his illness stopping him from being that hero, does deserve compassion,  there is a lot of background and assumptions that have to be made to connect those dots.

I get the jokes and the bashes and they are warranted, but am I the only one who sees Bob's pain? He wants so badly to do the right thing and be the hero but he is burdened by his own self doubt and instability. I feel so bad for him and I will root for him to succeed despite what others and the character's own publisher do or say about him.

Now if we can all hold hands and Nav. will lead us in Kumbaya

[Ivdar]

Like many people, I like the idea behind the Sentry. A fragile lunatic with god-like power ? You bet there are interesting things to be done there. I liked him in Silent War, which drew a comparison between him and Black Bolt (both beings who keep huge power in check), I also liked the moment of terror Osborn had in Dark Avengers, when he saw him resurrected after the battle with Morganna. A being with that much power has got to have moments of awesomeness, and madness can be a very interesting theme to explore.

However, there are two reasons for which I don't think he's a good character for mainstream comics. First is simply because he's overpowered : as we've seen, Sentry is incredibly powerful, if not omnipotent, and doesn't stay dead very long. If he were allowed to use his full potential, then everything would become irrelevant : there would be no battles, no challenge, no story and no need for any other hero than him. Which is why authors are forced to find ways to limit him or get him out of the picture : practically every time the Sentry enters battle, something occurs to hinder him. Usually he refuses to fight because he's afraid of his own power, or he just explodes for some reason.

The second reason flows from the other : if you've got a character with so much power, but never uses it, then it's pretty much nothing but a big disappointment. The Sentry is not hero material : he can't fight, he can't overcome challenges and be inspiring, because once he does, he becomes all-powerful and the story is over. The fact that he keeps being hindered makes him a butt monkey, which is terribly disappointing since he's obviously so powerful.

The Sentry is so broken that he could snap the story in half, so writers keep him down all the time. He could be a very interesting character, but he can't be expressed and developed in a mainstream comic universe. There are other omnipotent characters in the Marvel U (most cosmic beings, for example), but they are not heroes, they're either antagonists or part of the scenery : their very nature keeps them in the background. The Sentry is human and is supposed to be a super-hero : his mental illness is something he should be overcoming, but he can't or he'll become too powerful for the stories he's in. He's in the wrong universe, or at least on the wrong level : you can't have something that powerful fighting on the same scale as Luke Cage or Captain America.

I think the moment he finally lets go of his limitations (probably in Siege), he's gonna exit the story. He's gonna go live in space or become one with the universe after playing the role of a Deus ex Machina.

[Navarre]

All very well said, Gaumer and Ivdar.

And my ex-wife always said I was a hippie. I'm all about the peace and free-love thing. So I'll lead the first round of singing while the Sentry realigns the planets or something.

Normal humans and reasonably powered superheroes are intriguing as they discover their inner strength and potential.

Godlike beings are generally aloof beings, removed from humanity. They are interesting as they connect to the human condition.

But the Sentry is a godlike being consumed by his human condition. And, as Ivdar said, that may put him in a position too perilous for him to achieve his full potential in any direction.

[Ivdar]

I just had a look at Dark Avengers #13 this afternoon, an issue which was advertised as finally revealing the secret of the Sentry. It's given me some food for thoughts. Given the name of the site, I don't need to tell you "Spoilers" (you've probably already heard of it anyway).

This issue features what happens after Normie convinces the Sentry to join his Dark Avengers : if you remember, he obtained his attention by explaining his own mental problems, and by convincing Bob that those problems, no matter how insurmontable they seemed, were only in his head and that he needed only determination to be cured. That he could make the Void disappear simply by saying "There is no void".

Norman then gives Bob something that he says will make him very happy. Said thing is a vial of the serum that originally made him the Sentry. He drinks it, spits up some Kirby Dots and speaks more confidently, in black speech bubbles, and thanks Norman.

Cut to later, when the Sentry's wife has just blown his head off with an alien gun. She then instructs CLOC, the Sentry's robotic assistant, to record what she is about to say : she reveals that Bob was a miserable drug addict, who broke into the professor's lab looking for a fix. Instead he found the serum, took it and found a new addiction. Mindy says that all the façade of the golden hero was a lie, covering up the fact that Bob was a miserable human being who kept taking the serum, not the stuff hero are made of.

The Sentry then resurrects himself, again speaking in those black speech bubbles. It becomes fairly ovious he is possessed by his Void persona. He cruelly taunts Mindy and assures her she will never be rid of him ; she begs for death, but just as he is about to indulge, the Sentry briefly comes back to his senses. What follows is an argument between the two personalities as the Sentry flies into space, putting as much distance as he can between his wife and himself. The issue ends as he is about to dive into the sun, obviously to try killing himself and ending the threat of the Void (he should have just called Torq and the Torqletones).

Given that this is a flashback, it seems weird that it would end with a cliffhanger : we already know the Sentry survived, since he's alive and well during Siege. I didn't think much of this issue, but it got me to thinking about the portrayal of the character in Dark Avengers.

Before, in Silent War or World War Hulk, the Sentry was always shown as a god afraid of his own power. He was on the edge, barely remaining stable by keeping his power in check. When he finally went to fight the Hulk, whispering "It's time to play god", I was pumped to finally see him doing something ! He didn't really qualify as a reluctant hero (like Old Man Logan), but he still had some strength about him.

In Dark Avengers, Bendis presents him in the same tone as the rest of the team : these people are almost all pitiful, despicable and unstable samples of humanity. You've got cheap sex, debilitating medications, meaningless macho arguments...maybe Ares escapes that portrayal, I couldn't tell. It makes perfect sense, since it's the story of Norman's doomed attempt at being a hero, being in charge : this man and his team think they are on top of the world, that everything is finally going to work, but you just know they're all going to be crushed and humiliated, in no small part by their own flaws and mental problems.

The Sentry-bashing becomes part of the story. I think it's the point of the character : here is this omnipotent being who is a whimpering junkie, afraid of his own power, unable to take responsability for his actions (thus creating an alternate personality). He keeps getting blown up, beaten to the ground and running away. The Sentry is not supposed to ever be a hero, to ever overcome the odds or become more noble : he is scum, just as much as the others, and he will end like it, it seems.

If that is indeed what Bendis intended for the character, then I can understand. It's coherent, it's clever and in a way, it makes the character a perfect symbol of the decadence of heroism in the Marvel Universe. He is a golden age icon who is slowly devolved into a schizophreniac and then revealed to have been nothing more than a junkie, all along. The problem is not that his power is too great for a human being to bear ; the Sentry was never a hero, and from the start he was weak and despicable. At least, that's what Mindy's tale tells us. Who know what will happen to him at the end of Siege ? But his end, I think, will be the end of the era of decadence that started with Avengers Disassembled. Let's hope that after this deconstruction of the Marvel U, the Reconstruction will work (funny side note, the same thing is happening over at DC with Brightest Day).

So in the end, I don't know what to think of it. On the one hand, I think Bendis really did think this character through and injected some very interesting things. But on the other, I still think the Sentry is basically a failure, and that does not work well in the mainstream super-hero genre : this character is dissonant, and because of that I think he wasn't given as much attention or appreciation as he could have, which is a shame, considering how interesting he is.

One last thought comes to mind : although I came up with all these fancy interpretations in my head, I had to think about the character for a while to come upon them. Maybe the story did not do a good enough job of showing them to me, maybe this character and his themes are too subtle for this format and/or this media, or maybe I'm just giving Bendis too much credit. I dunno, these themes, motifs and whatnot just do not seem vivid enough to illuminate my mind. I kind of have to dig around with a flashlight to find them.

Well that's another awfully big post. What do you think of all this nonsense ?