Saving Kitty Pryde

[Slappy]

Gaumer is right.  Nothing against Kitty, but the dead return is only good in zombie stories or Blackest Night.  Same thing with Bruce Wayne.  Let him stay dead and take Jason Todd with him.  Dick is now Batman and so goes the circle of life.  Lincoln has been dead for 155 years 9 Months 13 days and exactly 13 hours 1 minute by my clock.  Let him rest in piece, we are not trying to return him to this moment in time.  Let death mean something and not a joke like the death of Kenny.

[Navarre]

I agree completely.

It's just that I never thought Kitty was dead.

But, yes, the death of a character should mean something. We have all come to the point where we don't even blink at the death of a character. In fact, we scoff at it because experience has taught us it means nothing.

The publishers have taken one of the most powerful events that can happen and reduced it to just another marketing ploy and heavy-handed plot device to drive stories and change up characters.

I find that disappointing on many levels. I am not disappointed to see Kitty return though because being M.I.A. is not the same (though it's close).

[Gaumer]

No way!!!

If Lincoln doesn't come back soon, and I mean soon, I don't know what I will do. I mean, they kill him off right before Reconstruction??? Horrible plot move.

[Navarre]

He's probably trapped in the time stream. It seems to be a popular plot device these days.

Now that Barry Allen is not-dead maybe he can run back and save Lincoln. It's all part of Marvel's new Heroic Age.

[Ivdar]

Death in comic books has become like death in D&D. All the effect it has is you pay for a raise the dead ritual and lose a level, or spend some time being inactive until the next big crossover happens.

I hope this new Heroic Age and the reconstruction it brings can adress this issue too : along with heroism, death is one of the major comic book disillusions nowadays. One can always dream...

[Navarre]

Yep. I am working out some things for my game world so that death is a big deal and as permanent as I can make it in a fantasy world.

As for comics, I don't know why editors don't see the problem they've created.

[The Mighty King Cobra]

You're arguing both sides of the argument, though. 

"Death needs to be meaningful, death needs to be permanent, but don't kill my favorite!"

This is most of the reason why comic deaths ARE never permanent, because everyone is somebody's favorite.  Hell, virtually everybody in the original Marvel Universe Book of the Dead is back in one form or another, even the ones shot in the face by Scourge.  The problems lies not in the devaluation of the death of a character, but the devaluation of CHARACTER.  Even lamers like Steeplejack, Omega the Unknown and Basilisk are good, and if there's any justice in the universe, Matter-Eater Lad will enjoy great newfound popularity.

And also, monkeys might fly out my butt.

[Navarre]

For all of my fanatical loyalty and love for Steve Rogers, I would have been okay (sad, but okay) if his death had been permanent. The repercussions of Steve's death make my point about how meaningful death should be in the Marvel U.

There were powerful ramifications in the Marvel Universe brought forward by the death of a character that important. Tony Stark's rise and fall and Dark Reign were chief among these.

Then we have Bucky as he carried on the mantle and title. I'm not the world's biggest Bucky fan but it has been a great read watching him try to live up to the legend of his mentor and friend.

You know the whole Stages of Grief thing that people go through when someone dies? Well, I seriously went through those when Steve died on those courthouse steps (or shortly thereafter). Even Marvel had issues tied to those stages of grief. His death meant that much.

So the only thing worse than going through his death was the sick feeling in my stomach that it was all for nothing. Because I knew he'd return.

You knew it, I knew it, by now even the MU characters should have known it because it always happens. Bucky should have just saved his energy and vacationed in Cabo with Natasha because he should have known no one's ever dead.

Yes, I am glad Steve is back. But I don't support the way death and resurrection is handled in comics, no. And if Steve had truly died I would have considered it a monumental step in the right direction. In fact, if Steve had been the first character to die and stay dead it would have at least been a symbol of something meaningful, appropriate to the character.

As for Kitty, I simply considered the whole death thing an irrelevant topic because she wasn't dead. She was missing. Big difference.

We had already seen she can survive without the necessities other people must have. This was proven by the fact that she could phase through solid metal for a mile without needing to breathe.

She wasn't shown "dead". She was shown flying off into space and no one went to get her.

That's my gripe with not saving Kitty. Character death in comics had nothing to do with it.

[Ivdar]

We had already seen she can survive without the necessities other people must have. This was proven by the fact that she could phase through solid metal for a mile without needing to breathe.

She wasn't shown "dead". She was shown flying off into space and no one went to get her.

You have to wonder, though : even if Kitty doesn't need to breathe while phasing, does she also become immune to thirst and hunger ?

Anyway, you're asprolutely right, Matthew : the companies aren't going to displease the readers just for the sake of art, it's not good for business. Yes, permanent death in comics would be very interesting, but you can't blame them for doing their job.

Still, were readers that angry when it seemed Cap would stay dead ?

[Navarre]

You have to wonder, though : even if Kitty doesn't need to breathe while phasing, does she also become immune to thirst and hunger ?

I had made that assumption, yes. In earlier decades, Kitty could only phase as far as she held her breath. This made sense because her body and the oxygen in it would be in synch but she'd be out of phase to take a breath of the tangible air about her.

This is clearly not the case any more. So it suggests to me that her body becomes more phantom-like, unheeded by the need for air, food, or water.

I think there may be an evolution of her powers in some way that hasn't been adressed yet. Even the writers may not have thought it through.

But Kitty may be more like DC's Phantom Girl, slipping into a different dimensional state. (someone should have a poll between Kitty and Phantom Girl  heh)

Anyway, you're asprolutely right, Matthew : the companies aren't going to displease the readers just for the sake of art, it's not good for business. Yes, permanent death in comics would be very interesting, but you can't blame them for doing their job.

How is it the job of the writers to do this? Having a character die doesn't stop the story nor does it stop sales, if it is well-written.

And we aren't talking about killing half the people in the Marvel Universe (raises eyebrow at Thanos). Heroes are a hardy death-defying lot.

But, on the rare occasion, it should at least be possible for a character to die. And, if they do, it should be done because that is what is best for the story, not as a marketing ploy to sell us the death issues and subsequent return issues.

Still, were readers that angry when it seemed Cap would stay dead ?

Yes.

But it was only because I can't believe that any more. I don't care how long a comic book character is dead, I assume they'll bring the character back later. And I feel very cheated and emotionally manipulated by that.

[chrysalis]

Navarre, I never thought of the possiblity if seeing Kitty's powers evolve but that would something I would love to read. Maybe her phasing skills have evolved so that she can become dormant? Kind of like a bear?

[Navarre]

Well, we know this much. Kitty is coming back very, very soon. I'm sure she wasn't dead.

Therefore she must have had a way to remain alive. I think the explanation for that will perhaps tell us more what her phasing allows her to do.

I am very excited to have her back. ... I might have mentioned that though.

[The Mighty King Cobra]

Well, we know this much. Kitty is coming back very, very soon. I'm sure she wasn't dead.

What if it's not a Kitty at all, but an evil alien presence pretending to be her after eating the bullet?  And it wants to kill all the X-Men?  And eat their brains?

That'd be cool.

[Navarre]

Why would I not be surprised if you've already submitted the script for this to Marvel?  lol

[Slappy]

A Brain eating alien Kitty would be cool.