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	<title>Comments on: Review: Robin #180</title>
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		<title>By: Jacin</title>
		<link>http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/8407.htm/#comment-89408</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 03:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorspoilers.com/?p=8407#comment-89408</guid>
		<description>If that&#039;s the case, Ricco, it just goes to demostrate that Morrison has no grasp whatsoever on the character, which given Morrison&#039;s tenuous grasp on continuity in general, wouldn&#039;t really surprise me.

Think about Superman for a minute.  Superman is really Clark, the kid raised on a Kansas farm with the whole &#039;truth, justice, and the American way&#039; mindset.  Superman is the costume Clark puts on.

Batman is the opposite.  Batman is not the mask, Bruce Wayne is.  In every meaningful way, Bruce died the same night his parents did.  He&#039;s just the mask Batman puts on when he needs to go out in the daytime or interact with &#039;polite society&#039;.  Bruce is about as &#039;real&#039; as Matches Malone is.

You can&#039;t &lt;i&gt;end&lt;/i&gt; Batman.  He can&#039;t just hang up the mask and quit.  He can&#039;t just walk away.  He can&#039;t flip out and cease to be Batman because Batman is the essence of who and what he is.  He can&#039;t &#039;go back&#039; to being Bruce because he&#039;s already ceased to be.

Does that make sense?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If that&#8217;s the case, Ricco, it just goes to demostrate that Morrison has no grasp whatsoever on the character, which given Morrison&#8217;s tenuous grasp on continuity in general, wouldn&#8217;t really surprise me.</p>
<p>Think about Superman for a minute.  Superman is really Clark, the kid raised on a Kansas farm with the whole &#8216;truth, justice, and the American way&#8217; mindset.  Superman is the costume Clark puts on.</p>
<p>Batman is the opposite.  Batman is not the mask, Bruce Wayne is.  In every meaningful way, Bruce died the same night his parents did.  He&#8217;s just the mask Batman puts on when he needs to go out in the daytime or interact with &#8216;polite society&#8217;.  Bruce is about as &#8216;real&#8217; as Matches Malone is.</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t <i>end</i> Batman.  He can&#8217;t just hang up the mask and quit.  He can&#8217;t just walk away.  He can&#8217;t flip out and cease to be Batman because Batman is the essence of who and what he is.  He can&#8217;t &#8216;go back&#8217; to being Bruce because he&#8217;s already ceased to be.</p>
<p>Does that make sense?</p>
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		<title>By: Ricco</title>
		<link>http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/8407.htm/#comment-89400</link>
		<dc:creator>Ricco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 02:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorspoilers.com/?p=8407#comment-89400</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t Batman supposed to suffer a faith &quot;worse&quot; then death? And did anyone else note that spoilers says Batman is dead, not Bruce Wayne. My guess is that he goes coockoo bananas or catatonic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t Batman supposed to suffer a faith &#8220;worse&#8221; then death? And did anyone else note that spoilers says Batman is dead, not Bruce Wayne. My guess is that he goes coockoo bananas or catatonic.</p>
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		<title>By: Roy</title>
		<link>http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/8407.htm/#comment-89361</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorspoilers.com/?p=8407#comment-89361</guid>
		<description>Tim as the bat and Stephanie as the bird would be interesting, at least from the aspect of the &quot;are they gay or aren&#039;t they&quot; jokes that have always surrounded Batman and Robin...but, I don&#039;t think I like it quite as much as Dick becoming the new Batman. Although, that does put quite a spin on the &quot;Bat-dickness Meter&quot;! Thank you, thank you, I&#039;ll be here all week.

But seriously - I think Dick would be the best choice for the cowl. And I will probably need to be in the minority when I say this, but maybe, just maybe...Bruce needs to stay dead. Maybe for good. At least for 15 or so years, ala The Flash after Crisis on Infinite Worlds. Can you imagine? He would be that &quot;embodiment of good&quot; that all of the other characters could aspire to, even Superman. Something to really inspire them all and make them want to be &quot;heroes&quot; again - symbols of what society &quot;could&quot; be. Kill him off fighting the Joker, or maybe even Darkseid, in such a fashion that it really, REALLY means something.

It probably won&#039;t ever happen. But can you imagine?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim as the bat and Stephanie as the bird would be interesting, at least from the aspect of the &#8220;are they gay or aren&#8217;t they&#8221; jokes that have always surrounded Batman and Robin&#8230;but, I don&#8217;t think I like it quite as much as Dick becoming the new Batman. Although, that does put quite a spin on the &#8220;Bat-dickness Meter&#8221;! Thank you, thank you, I&#8217;ll be here all week.</p>
<p>But seriously &#8211; I think Dick would be the best choice for the cowl. And I will probably need to be in the minority when I say this, but maybe, just maybe&#8230;Bruce needs to stay dead. Maybe for good. At least for 15 or so years, ala The Flash after Crisis on Infinite Worlds. Can you imagine? He would be that &#8220;embodiment of good&#8221; that all of the other characters could aspire to, even Superman. Something to really inspire them all and make them want to be &#8220;heroes&#8221; again &#8211; symbols of what society &#8220;could&#8221; be. Kill him off fighting the Joker, or maybe even Darkseid, in such a fashion that it really, REALLY means something.</p>
<p>It probably won&#8217;t ever happen. But can you imagine?</p>
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		<title>By: Ricco</title>
		<link>http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/8407.htm/#comment-89257</link>
		<dc:creator>Ricco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorspoilers.com/?p=8407#comment-89257</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a sad state of affairs when &quot;Marvel Zombies&quot; has better continuity then the DCU...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a sad state of affairs when &#8220;Marvel Zombies&#8221; has better continuity then the DCU&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jacin B.</title>
		<link>http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/8407.htm/#comment-89254</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacin B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorspoilers.com/?p=8407#comment-89254</guid>
		<description>When I was most &#039;in love&#039; with the DCU was when, leading up to and following Identity Crisis, &lt;i&gt;everything&lt;/i&gt; in the continuity of the entire universe was so closely managed that you had comics referencing events that were going on in other titles that same week.

Everything was tied together.  Everything that happened anywhere effected everything that was happening everywhere else.  Continuity was so tight, it was a thing of beauty and it actually made me &lt;i&gt;want&lt;/i&gt; to buy more comics and pick up titles I wouldn&#039;t usually buy so that I could find out what&#039;d happened &lt;i&gt;without&lt;/i&gt; having to actually make it part of some super-mega-blockbuster event.

Now, DC&#039;s editorial staff seem to have adopted Marvel&#039;s &quot;Continuity be damned as long as the story is good (or, you know, still two connecting flights from mediocre, but something that we can market the hell out of).&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was most &#8216;in love&#8217; with the DCU was when, leading up to and following Identity Crisis, <i>everything</i> in the continuity of the entire universe was so closely managed that you had comics referencing events that were going on in other titles that same week.</p>
<p>Everything was tied together.  Everything that happened anywhere effected everything that was happening everywhere else.  Continuity was so tight, it was a thing of beauty and it actually made me <i>want</i> to buy more comics and pick up titles I wouldn&#8217;t usually buy so that I could find out what&#8217;d happened <i>without</i> having to actually make it part of some super-mega-blockbuster event.</p>
<p>Now, DC&#8217;s editorial staff seem to have adopted Marvel&#8217;s &#8220;Continuity be damned as long as the story is good (or, you know, still two connecting flights from mediocre, but something that we can market the hell out of).&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Schleicher</title>
		<link>http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/8407.htm/#comment-89250</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Schleicher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:05:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorspoilers.com/?p=8407#comment-89250</guid>
		<description>The cover to Batman and Robin I&#039;ve seen sure make it look like Damian - I&#039;d like to see Stephanie be the new Robin too, but I think that would cause too many conflicts between Tim and Steph.  Although.... Tim as Batman and Stephanie as Robin would be a very unique story.

But I agree with you Jacin.  Keep everything status quo, just tell really great stories.  Dini is doing just fine in Detective, it shouldn&#039;t be hard to find great writers who can do the same thing without shaking up the whole universe, and flushing continuity across the DCU down the toilet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The cover to Batman and Robin I&#8217;ve seen sure make it look like Damian &#8211; I&#8217;d like to see Stephanie be the new Robin too, but I think that would cause too many conflicts between Tim and Steph.  Although&#8230;. Tim as Batman and Stephanie as Robin would be a very unique story.</p>
<p>But I agree with you Jacin.  Keep everything status quo, just tell really great stories.  Dini is doing just fine in Detective, it shouldn&#8217;t be hard to find great writers who can do the same thing without shaking up the whole universe, and flushing continuity across the DCU down the toilet.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacin B.</title>
		<link>http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/8407.htm/#comment-89249</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacin B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorspoilers.com/?p=8407#comment-89249</guid>
		<description>Personally, I&#039;d like Dick to take over as Batman.  Robin to &#039;grow&#039; into Red Robin.  And, Stephanie to take over the Robin role to Dick&#039;s Batman.  Tim and Dick have too much of a &#039;brotherly&#039; role for the Batman-Robin mentorship thing to really work.


(Actually, this entire post is a lie.  I don&#039;t want to see any of that, as I&#039;m perfectly happy with the status quo.  However, since change is being forced upon me, that&#039;s how I&#039;d like change to come.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I&#8217;d like Dick to take over as Batman.  Robin to &#8216;grow&#8217; into Red Robin.  And, Stephanie to take over the Robin role to Dick&#8217;s Batman.  Tim and Dick have too much of a &#8216;brotherly&#8217; role for the Batman-Robin mentorship thing to really work.</p>
<p>(Actually, this entire post is a lie.  I don&#8217;t want to see any of that, as I&#8217;m perfectly happy with the status quo.  However, since change is being forced upon me, that&#8217;s how I&#8217;d like change to come.)</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Schleicher</title>
		<link>http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/8407.htm/#comment-89246</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Schleicher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorspoilers.com/?p=8407#comment-89246</guid>
		<description>The Robin title in its current form is ending in February - hence that FINAL ISSUE tag at the end.  Coming back in a few months is Red Robin, Batman and Robin, and Detective.  We know Tim won&#039;t be Batman as he wouldn&#039;t allow Damian to be his sidekick. Considering Dick and Talia have gotten along in the NIghtwing title, it does make Dick the new Batman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Robin title in its current form is ending in February &#8211; hence that FINAL ISSUE tag at the end.  Coming back in a few months is Red Robin, Batman and Robin, and Detective.  We know Tim won&#8217;t be Batman as he wouldn&#8217;t allow Damian to be his sidekick. Considering Dick and Talia have gotten along in the NIghtwing title, it does make Dick the new Batman.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacin B.</title>
		<link>http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/8407.htm/#comment-89244</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacin B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:49:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorspoilers.com/?p=8407#comment-89244</guid>
		<description>If&#039;n you&#039;re not interested in spoilers, quit reading here ...


The February solicits pretty much explicitly state that Dick Grayson&#039;s the new Batman, per Bruce&#039;s &#039;final wishes&#039;.  Alfred&#039;s conversation with Batgirl in the latest Outsiders, telling her that she&#039;ll need to get a little friendlier with Dick if she wants to remain a part of the Bat-family, pretty much confirms that.  

The solicits also mention that Tim&#039;s still alive and goes to get training from ... Shiva, I think.  Either way, he&#039;s still around.  Whether he is still Robin or not is up in the air, but he&#039;s still around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If&#8217;n you&#8217;re not interested in spoilers, quit reading here &#8230;</p>
<p>The February solicits pretty much explicitly state that Dick Grayson&#8217;s the new Batman, per Bruce&#8217;s &#8216;final wishes&#8217;.  Alfred&#8217;s conversation with Batgirl in the latest Outsiders, telling her that she&#8217;ll need to get a little friendlier with Dick if she wants to remain a part of the Bat-family, pretty much confirms that.  </p>
<p>The solicits also mention that Tim&#8217;s still alive and goes to get training from &#8230; Shiva, I think.  Either way, he&#8217;s still around.  Whether he is still Robin or not is up in the air, but he&#8217;s still around.</p>
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		<title>By: Ricco</title>
		<link>http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/8407.htm/#comment-89241</link>
		<dc:creator>Ricco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorspoilers.com/?p=8407#comment-89241</guid>
		<description>Taken from : &quot;DC comics for February 2009&quot; in this very site
&quot;ROBIN #183
Written by Fabian Nicieza
Art and cover by Freddie E. Williams II
A “Batman: Last Rites” tie-in and featuring an “Origins and Omens” backup story! Gotham City has found a new hero and his name is Robin – but with a battle for Batman’s cowl looming, is Tim Drake ready to become something more? Guest-starring Jason Todd and Lady Shiva. And don’t worry, this final issue doesn’t mark the end of Robin – it’s just the start of an all-new beginning!
FINAL ISSUE&quot;

Now that we know the series won&#039;t really &quot;end&quot; what I would like to know is how far Tim&#039;ll go to keep Gotham form imploding and what kind of hero he&#039;ll be by the end of the series.

What&#039;s interesting, to me at least, in this arc is the fact that in Teen Titans he always becomes The Batman in the futur, but one who crossed the line and kills, with a gun no less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taken from : &#8220;DC comics for February 2009&#8243; in this very site<br />
&#8220;ROBIN #183<br />
Written by Fabian Nicieza<br />
Art and cover by Freddie E. Williams II<br />
A “Batman: Last Rites” tie-in and featuring an “Origins and Omens” backup story! Gotham City has found a new hero and his name is Robin – but with a battle for Batman’s cowl looming, is Tim Drake ready to become something more? Guest-starring Jason Todd and Lady Shiva. And don’t worry, this final issue doesn’t mark the end of Robin – it’s just the start of an all-new beginning!<br />
FINAL ISSUE&#8221;</p>
<p>Now that we know the series won&#8217;t really &#8220;end&#8221; what I would like to know is how far Tim&#8217;ll go to keep Gotham form imploding and what kind of hero he&#8217;ll be by the end of the series.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s interesting, to me at least, in this arc is the fact that in Teen Titans he always becomes The Batman in the futur, but one who crossed the line and kills, with a gun no less.</p>
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		<title>By: applejack1310</title>
		<link>http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/8407.htm/#comment-89239</link>
		<dc:creator>applejack1310</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorspoilers.com/?p=8407#comment-89239</guid>
		<description>Personally, I&#039;m one of the readers hoping that Tim DOES become the new Batman.  This is all with the hope that Batman comes back in a year or two.  Dick was brought in as the sidekick that would &quot;humanize&quot; Batman.  He was the &quot;bright side.&quot;  Jason (ugh) was brought in to fill a void.  Didn&#039;t work.  I&#039;ve always felt that Tim was brought in to be trained to be the next Batman.  Bruce wanted Dick to grow up to be his own man.  I think he wanted Tim to grow into the Batman role, not grow up to become a new hero.  Dick has established himself as Nightwing and I think he deserves to keep that going.  He&#039;s always referred to as &quot;one of the most respected heroes.&quot;  I&#039;d like to see Dick, as Nightwing, take a more prominent role in the DCU.  JLA?  Yeah, he needs to be there, maybe even leading it.  Superman says he&#039;s that good, good enough for me.  Don&#039;t take away the history he&#039;s built for himself, only to have Bruce come back (and he will) to become Batman, forcing Dick back into his Nightwing role.  I think it needs to be Tim.  As angry as Morrison makes me, he said it himself.  He wants Tim as Batman.  I&#039;m torn on that, cuz Morrison makes me angry, but I&#039;m with him on this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I&#8217;m one of the readers hoping that Tim DOES become the new Batman.  This is all with the hope that Batman comes back in a year or two.  Dick was brought in as the sidekick that would &#8220;humanize&#8221; Batman.  He was the &#8220;bright side.&#8221;  Jason (ugh) was brought in to fill a void.  Didn&#8217;t work.  I&#8217;ve always felt that Tim was brought in to be trained to be the next Batman.  Bruce wanted Dick to grow up to be his own man.  I think he wanted Tim to grow into the Batman role, not grow up to become a new hero.  Dick has established himself as Nightwing and I think he deserves to keep that going.  He&#8217;s always referred to as &#8220;one of the most respected heroes.&#8221;  I&#8217;d like to see Dick, as Nightwing, take a more prominent role in the DCU.  JLA?  Yeah, he needs to be there, maybe even leading it.  Superman says he&#8217;s that good, good enough for me.  Don&#8217;t take away the history he&#8217;s built for himself, only to have Bruce come back (and he will) to become Batman, forcing Dick back into his Nightwing role.  I think it needs to be Tim.  As angry as Morrison makes me, he said it himself.  He wants Tim as Batman.  I&#8217;m torn on that, cuz Morrison makes me angry, but I&#8217;m with him on this.</p>
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