Comments on: New Avengers #35 http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/2616.htm/ We Know You Love Comics. We Do Too. Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:10:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Tremaine http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/2616.htm/#comment-47689 Tremaine Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:54:29 +0000 http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/2616.htm/#comment-47689 And I also notice you worship Tigra like the cool cat god she is ^_^ (like me) She could be the next Huntress...wait, we dont want that now..do we? And I also notice you worship Tigra like the cool cat god she is ^_^ (like me) She could be the next Huntress…wait, we dont want that now..do we?

]]> By: Tremaine http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/2616.htm/#comment-47688 Tremaine Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:52:29 +0000 http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/2616.htm/#comment-47688 Tigra is someone I actually repect and, well you just KNOW she'll kill the Hood, soon. Not "beat", "slam", "mame" or "trounce" on. She'll actually kill him. But I'm not a big fan of this etheir... Tigra is someone I actually repect and, well you just KNOW she’ll kill the Hood, soon. Not “beat”, “slam”, “mame” or “trounce” on. She’ll actually kill him. But I’m not a big fan of this etheir…

]]> By: Steven R. Stahl http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/2616.htm/#comment-47375 Steven R. Stahl Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:07:46 +0000 http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/2616.htm/#comment-47375 Readers of NEW AVENGERS #35, whether their reactions to the content were pro or con, might be interested in this interview (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=133467 ) re the Hood and Tigra. I read it, and don’t buy Bendis’s rationales at all. He doesn’t appear to be familiar enough with literary criticism to understand that there are supposed to be reasons for characters to do what they do. Those reasons are connected to characterizations, plot and theme(s), all forming a structure. Things don’t just “happen.” Note Bendis’s repeated claims that there was *no* sexual content in the Tigra-Hood sequence, and then relate those claims to the treatment of women in NEW AVENGERS and “Avengers Disassembled”--Belova, Jan, Wanda, et al. Bendis touted the interview on his own Web site (http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=128953&page=24)-- he’s obviously aware of the appearance of misogyny in his work, but he’s not trying to avoid the perception. SRS Readers of NEW AVENGERS #35, whether their reactions to the content were pro or con, might be interested in this interview (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=133467 ) re the Hood and Tigra. I read it, and don’t buy Bendis’s rationales at all. He doesn’t appear to be familiar enough with literary criticism to understand that there are supposed to be reasons for characters to do what they do. Those reasons are connected to characterizations, plot and theme(s), all forming a structure. Things don’t just “happen.” Note Bendis’s repeated claims that there was *no* sexual content in the Tigra-Hood sequence, and then relate those claims to the treatment of women in NEW AVENGERS and “Avengers Disassembled”–Belova, Jan, Wanda, et al. Bendis touted the interview on his own Web site (http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=128953&page=24)– he’s obviously aware of the appearance of misogyny in his work, but he’s not trying to avoid the perception.

SRS

]]> By: jman http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/2616.htm/#comment-47189 jman Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:29:01 +0000 http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/2616.htm/#comment-47189 "The unreal nature of the events in Bendis’s story is a primary reason, IMO, why the story fails so badly. The threat to Tigra’s mother could work in a crime fiction story, but not here; superheroes and supervillains exist to fight each other within morality plays, and they generally interact with the “real world” in limited and very specific ways. Handling that interaction skillfully is an art that Busiek mastered and others have done well at, but Bendis doesn’t even try." This summed up out the point I've been making all along, and with a nice reference to Kurt Busiek...;) I kinda get the sense that Bendis is trying to ape Frank Miller/Seinfeld sometimes with the repetition of dialogue("Got it?" "Aaaiiee!!" Just count how many times someone says "Shut up" in "All-Star Goddamn Batman and Robin"). I don't think Bendis "gets" superheroes outside of his own "Powers." Seems to do better on out of continutity tales("What if? = Avengers Dissabsembeld" explained more than the actual story it was based on). Too much ignorance of continuity. And if he wanted to do a Defenders book with street-level brawlers(Luke Cage, Daredevil, Ronin/Echo,etc. Hell, throw his favorite hard-ons Doc Strange and Namor in there if he likes) let him have at it. At least they're characters that I'm not fond of getting screwed over on the regular. Just keep him away from Avengers, Quesada. Post-Civil War Marvel is a shambles. “The unreal nature of the events in Bendis’s story is a primary reason, IMO, why the story fails so badly. The threat to Tigra’s mother could work in a crime fiction story, but not here; superheroes and supervillains exist to fight each other within morality plays, and they generally interact with the “real world” in limited and very specific ways. Handling that interaction skillfully is an art that Busiek mastered and others have done well at, but Bendis doesn’t even try.”

This summed up out the point I’ve been making all along, and with a nice reference to Kurt Busiek…;)

I kinda get the sense that Bendis is trying to ape Frank Miller/Seinfeld sometimes with the repetition of dialogue(”Got it?” “Aaaiiee!!” Just count how many times someone says “Shut up” in “All-Star Goddamn Batman and Robin”).

I don’t think Bendis “gets” superheroes outside of his own “Powers.” Seems to do better on out of continutity tales(”What if? = Avengers Dissabsembeld” explained more than the actual story it was based on). Too much ignorance of continuity.

And if he wanted to do a Defenders book with street-level brawlers(Luke Cage, Daredevil,
Ronin/Echo,etc. Hell, throw his favorite hard-ons Doc Strange and Namor in there if he likes) let him have at it. At least they’re characters that I’m not fond of getting screwed over on the regular. Just keep him away from Avengers, Quesada. Post-Civil War Marvel is a shambles.

]]> By: Steven R. Stahl http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/2616.htm/#comment-47174 Steven R. Stahl Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:27:50 +0000 http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/2616.htm/#comment-47174 Reading the positive comments on NEW AVENGERS #35 makes me wonder just how much experience those readers have had reading well-written prose fiction of any type, much less crime fiction. Compare the realism of the hero and his environment in practically any novel to the characters and environment in NEW AVENGERS #35; you’ll find massive differences in the ways characters and their worlds are defined. If Bendis’s NA series isn’t an attempt to imitate a video, it’s an outline for a story at best--not the soap opera, with characters going into suspended animation between issues that AVENGERS was for decades, but no more realistic than any other regular story Marvel has published. The unreal nature of the events in Bendis’s story is a primary reason, IMO, why the story fails so badly. The threat to Tigra’s mother could work in a crime fiction story, but not here; superheroes and supervillains exist to fight each other within morality plays, and they generally interact with the “real world” in limited and very specific ways. Handling that interaction skillfully is an art that Busiek mastered and others have done well at, but Bendis doesn’t even try. Plugging paranormals directly into situations taken from crime fiction (from NA #33 on) may be exactly what Bendis wants to do, but the situation he set up in NA #35 doesn’t allow for the possibility that Tigra could go to her Avengers friends and have them (Wonder Man, et al.) take out or kill the criminals in the Hood’s gang, and take out the Hood as well. The structure of the Marvel Universe doesn’t allow tit-for-tat, escalating retaliation, no matter how appropriate the retaliation would be, because too many characters would die. So the poor reader is supposed to watch Tigra be beaten up and think, “Oh, poor Tigra,” or enjoy the sequence as a misogynist would. Since Tigra’s supposed intimidation is the core of the story, there is no story in a literary sense. There’s no theme, no character development, only a suggestion of a plot--unless a reader enjoyed seeing the criminals come into some cash or enjoyed seeing Tigra’s pain and suffering, there’s no artistic content to speak of. What appears on the pages of NA #35 wouldn’t satisfy the legal definition of obscenity--but what appears is devoid of artistic worth, and can accurately be termed pornography. SRS Reading the positive comments on NEW AVENGERS #35 makes me wonder just how much experience those readers have had reading well-written prose fiction of any type, much less crime fiction. Compare the realism of the hero and his environment in practically any novel to the characters and environment in NEW AVENGERS #35; you’ll find massive differences in the ways characters and their worlds are defined. If Bendis’s NA series isn’t an attempt to imitate a video, it’s an outline for a story at best–not the soap opera, with characters going into suspended animation between issues that AVENGERS was for decades, but no more realistic than any other regular story Marvel has published.

The unreal nature of the events in Bendis’s story is a primary reason, IMO, why the story fails so badly. The threat to Tigra’s mother could work in a crime fiction story, but not here; superheroes and supervillains exist to fight each other within morality plays, and they generally interact with the “real world” in limited and very specific ways. Handling that interaction skillfully is an art that Busiek mastered and others have done well at, but Bendis doesn’t even try.

Plugging paranormals directly into situations taken from crime fiction (from NA #33 on) may be exactly what Bendis wants to do, but the situation he set up in NA #35 doesn’t allow for the possibility that Tigra could go to her Avengers friends and have them (Wonder Man, et al.) take out or kill the criminals in the Hood’s gang, and take out the Hood as well. The structure of the Marvel Universe doesn’t allow tit-for-tat, escalating retaliation, no matter how appropriate the retaliation would be, because too many characters would die. So the poor reader is supposed to watch Tigra be beaten up and think, “Oh, poor Tigra,” or enjoy the sequence as a misogynist would.

Since Tigra’s supposed intimidation is the core of the story, there is no story in a literary sense. There’s no theme, no character development, only a suggestion of a plot–unless a reader enjoyed seeing the criminals come into some cash or enjoyed seeing Tigra’s pain and suffering, there’s no artistic content to speak of. What appears on the pages of NA #35 wouldn’t satisfy the legal definition of obscenity–but what appears is devoid of artistic worth, and can accurately be termed pornography.

SRS

]]> By: Mike Loughlin http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/2616.htm/#comment-47150 Mike Loughlin Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:14:56 +0000 http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/2616.htm/#comment-47150 Why would anyone want to make the Marvel Universe like the Sopranos? That's just stupid. Make the Punisher like the Sopranos if you must, but where would Spider-Man, the Hulk, et al fit in a Sopranos story. "This sucks, but if anyone in the Marvel Universe deserves to be surrogate-raped, it's Tigra, the slut" may be the worst defense for mysogynist crap I've ever read. "Good, you're supposed to be shocked" doesn't cut it, either. I don't want to see ANY super-hero humiliated in this fashion. If it's a double standard because I dislike it even more if it happens to a female character, oh well. There is no explanation I have heard, or I can think of, that justifies this garbage. Why would anyone want to make the Marvel Universe like the Sopranos? That’s just stupid. Make the Punisher like the Sopranos if you must, but where would Spider-Man, the Hulk, et al fit in a Sopranos story.

“This sucks, but if anyone in the Marvel Universe deserves to be surrogate-raped, it’s Tigra, the slut” may be the worst defense for mysogynist crap I’ve ever read. “Good, you’re supposed to be shocked” doesn’t cut it, either. I don’t want to see ANY super-hero humiliated in this fashion. If it’s a double standard because I dislike it even more if it happens to a female character, oh well. There is no explanation I have heard, or I can think of, that justifies this garbage.

]]> By: ryansmith http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/2616.htm/#comment-46964 ryansmith Wed, 17 Oct 2007 16:40:38 +0000 http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/2616.htm/#comment-46964 i quit reading comics long ago and only recently got back into em, so pardon my naivete if i missed something. Isnt this issue trying to show what weve always known and the initiative doesnt? that revealing the identities of heros like spiderman and daredevil will just lead to putting their families in danger. I still remember that issue of spectacular spiderman (#52 i think) where gideon mace killed off the white tigers family then almost killed the tiger as well. all because the tigers id had been made public. (it was shockingly brutal at the time, and really made you realise there are BAD villains) I think the writer is trying to revitalize some b-list villains in grunwald fashion. but some should not be there. Im sure cutthroat is dead (his throat cut by crossbones). the tiger shark mutated, didnt he? goldbug (but i guess it could be midas, the golden man) im sure there are many others. all it would take is a little click on the unofficial handbook to check. i quit reading comics long ago and only recently got back into em, so pardon my naivete if i missed something. Isnt this issue trying to show what weve always known and the initiative doesnt? that revealing the identities of heros like spiderman and daredevil will just lead to putting their families in danger. I still remember that issue of spectacular spiderman (#52 i think) where gideon mace killed off the white tigers family then almost killed the tiger as well. all because the tigers id had been made public. (it was shockingly brutal at the time, and really made you realise there are BAD villains)

I think the writer is trying to revitalize some b-list villains in grunwald fashion. but some should not be there. Im sure cutthroat is dead (his throat cut by crossbones). the tiger shark mutated, didnt he? goldbug (but i guess it could be midas, the golden man) im sure there are many others. all it would take is a little click on the unofficial handbook to check.

]]> By: Tony http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/2616.htm/#comment-46917 Tony Wed, 17 Oct 2007 13:11:23 +0000 http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/2616.htm/#comment-46917 I just got back into comics in the last year maybe. I was a long time Avengers reader and came in right after the Civil War. I have been reading New Avengers, Mighty Avengers and A:I. I agree with the many post about NO ENDINGS on story lines. I mean honestly! I read one issue about the Skrull attack coming, then all of a sudden its symbos on the loose. Then Hulk is attacking but then this Hood guy is going on. Ok, so are the Skrulls here and what is up with the Ultron storyline. For Pete's sake - lets take a deep breath and finish a story line. Its bad enough I am trying to keep up with these three and bought all the back issues of Thunderbolts and have now been buying that series as well. When I am buying Mighty Avengers tommorow I have to try and remember if they are fighting symbos, Hulk, Ultron or the Skrulls...or is the New Avengers fighting those. I cant remember. I just got back into comics in the last year maybe. I was a long time Avengers reader and came in right after the Civil War. I have been reading New Avengers, Mighty Avengers and A:I. I agree with the many post about NO ENDINGS on story lines. I mean honestly! I read one issue about the Skrull attack coming, then all of a sudden its symbos on the loose. Then Hulk is attacking but then this Hood guy is going on. Ok, so are the Skrulls here and what is up with the Ultron storyline. For Pete’s sake - lets take a deep breath and finish a story line. Its bad enough I am trying to keep up with these three and bought all the back issues of Thunderbolts and have now been buying that series as well. When I am buying Mighty Avengers tommorow I have to try and remember if they are fighting symbos, Hulk, Ultron or the Skrulls…or is the New Avengers fighting those. I cant remember.

]]> By: Matthew Peterson http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/2616.htm/#comment-46839 Matthew Peterson Wed, 17 Oct 2007 05:18:15 +0000 http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/2616.htm/#comment-46839 <i>That issue deserves much more then a single star. The brutal attack on Tigra, a very minor character in the Marvel Universe right now (and arguable always has been), was not nearly as bad as it has been made out to be here. The Hood is just M-U’s attempt at the Sopranos. If your a fan of that series, you’ve seen those type of brutal attacks on both male and female victims. They are suppose to mkae you unconfortable, and they are suppose to give depth to the villian. This did both, and more importantly, it was WELL done. I can’t agree with you on this one Matt :(</i> You don't have to. We can always agree to disagree. Still ain't changin' my rating, though... :) That issue deserves much more then a single star. The brutal attack on Tigra, a very minor character in the Marvel Universe right now (and arguable always has been), was not nearly as bad as it has been made out to be here.

The Hood is just M-U’s attempt at the Sopranos. If your a fan of that series, you’ve seen those type of brutal attacks on both male and female victims. They are suppose to mkae you unconfortable, and they are suppose to give depth to the villian. This did both, and more importantly, it was WELL done.

I can’t agree with you on this one Matt :(

You don’t have to. We can always agree to disagree.

Still ain’t changin’ my rating, though… :)

]]> By: Ben http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/2616.htm/#comment-46810 Ben Wed, 17 Oct 2007 01:19:41 +0000 http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/2616.htm/#comment-46810 That issue deserves much more then a single star. The brutal attack on Tigra, a very minor character in the Marvel Universe right now (and arguable always has been), was not nearly as bad as it has been made out to be here. The Hood is just M-U's attempt at the Sopranos. If your a fan of that series, you've seen those type of brutal attacks on both male and female victims. They are suppose to mkae you unconfortable, and they are suppose to give depth to the villian. This did both, and more importantly, it was WELL done. I can't agree with you on this one Matt :( That issue deserves much more then a single star. The brutal attack on Tigra, a very minor character in the Marvel Universe right now (and arguable always has been), was not nearly as bad as it has been made out to be here.

The Hood is just M-U’s attempt at the Sopranos. If your a fan of that series, you’ve seen those type of brutal attacks on both male and female victims. They are suppose to mkae you unconfortable, and they are suppose to give depth to the villian. This did both, and more importantly, it was WELL done.

I can’t agree with you on this one Matt :(

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