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	<title>Comments on: Civil War #7</title>
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	<description>We Know You Love Comics.  We Do Too.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Michael Szemer</title>
		<link>http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/1001.htm/#comment-5830</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Szemer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 16:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/1001.htm/#comment-5830</guid>
		<description>For better or worse -- and usually for the worse, at Marvel -- superhero comics epitomize melodrama, and the "top this!" mentality cited above, the need for set pieces and cliffhanger endings and shock moments, warped good characters out of all recognition in CIVIL WAR.  The reviewer calls Tony Stark a smug slimeball, and as a guy who's read Iron Man titles since TOS, I have to unreservedly agree that his characterization was utterly wrongheaded and in violation of what we've come to expect from Iron Man over the years.  But it was just one perversion among many.  Cap, Spider-Man, and Reed Richards -- perhaps Reed, most of all -- were insults to the true characters, to their originators, and to readers.  They were manques whose purpose was to frame hack melodrama.

As a grand architect of this dross, Mark Millar is one of the baldest opportunists in the business, who's found a trendy flavor of nihilism that is utterly inhumane and disgraceful.   Rather than respect these characters, he actively dispises them.  How else to explain the foul strain that permeates WANTED and THE ULTIMATES?  Heroism, in Millar's view, must always be suborned by lust, anger or sadism.   This sensibility may appeal to the Joe Qs of the industry, but it'll always limit the popularity of not-so-funnybooks to the geek crowd.  And there, I'm afraid, is where non-events like CIVIL WAR probably deserve to stay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For better or worse &#8212; and usually for the worse, at Marvel &#8212; superhero comics epitomize melodrama, and the &#8220;top this!&#8221; mentality cited above, the need for set pieces and cliffhanger endings and shock moments, warped good characters out of all recognition in CIVIL WAR.  The reviewer calls Tony Stark a smug slimeball, and as a guy who&#8217;s read Iron Man titles since TOS, I have to unreservedly agree that his characterization was utterly wrongheaded and in violation of what we&#8217;ve come to expect from Iron Man over the years.  But it was just one perversion among many.  Cap, Spider-Man, and Reed Richards &#8212; perhaps Reed, most of all &#8212; were insults to the true characters, to their originators, and to readers.  They were manques whose purpose was to frame hack melodrama.</p>
<p>As a grand architect of this dross, Mark Millar is one of the baldest opportunists in the business, who&#8217;s found a trendy flavor of nihilism that is utterly inhumane and disgraceful.   Rather than respect these characters, he actively dispises them.  How else to explain the foul strain that permeates WANTED and THE ULTIMATES?  Heroism, in Millar&#8217;s view, must always be suborned by lust, anger or sadism.   This sensibility may appeal to the Joe Qs of the industry, but it&#8217;ll always limit the popularity of not-so-funnybooks to the geek crowd.  And there, I&#8217;m afraid, is where non-events like CIVIL WAR probably deserve to stay.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Peterson</title>
		<link>http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/1001.htm/#comment-5779</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Peterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Feb 2007 03:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/1001.htm/#comment-5779</guid>
		<description>"And please, everyone stop using “mainstream” and “comic reader” in the same phrase. It is a laughable oxymoron."

I'm still searching for a point where anyone but you did that...  but thanks for sharing your opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And please, everyone stop using “mainstream” and “comic reader” in the same phrase. It is a laughable oxymoron.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still searching for a point where anyone but you did that&#8230;  but thanks for sharing your opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Nolan</title>
		<link>http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/1001.htm/#comment-5774</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Nolan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Feb 2007 00:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/1001.htm/#comment-5774</guid>
		<description>Civil War was a travesty, written by a hack. Sorry, but popularity in comics is like popularity in the model train market... Except by the numbers the 350,000 addicted comic readers of the USA are not even remotely significant compared to the 2,000,000 plus model train enthusiasts... Or the 150,000,000 plus mainstream readers.

And please, everyone stop using "mainstream" and "comic reader" in the same phrase. It is a laughable oxymoron.

Civil War is impenetrable to normal people, unreadable by children for all sorts of reasons and everything that is wrong with Marvel. This is the 90s writ large. Get over the hype, stop trying to find positives in a diabolical excremental wreck and find a new hobby... Or at least, new comics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Civil War was a travesty, written by a hack. Sorry, but popularity in comics is like popularity in the model train market&#8230; Except by the numbers the 350,000 addicted comic readers of the USA are not even remotely significant compared to the 2,000,000 plus model train enthusiasts&#8230; Or the 150,000,000 plus mainstream readers.</p>
<p>And please, everyone stop using &#8220;mainstream&#8221; and &#8220;comic reader&#8221; in the same phrase. It is a laughable oxymoron.</p>
<p>Civil War is impenetrable to normal people, unreadable by children for all sorts of reasons and everything that is wrong with Marvel. This is the 90s writ large. Get over the hype, stop trying to find positives in a diabolical excremental wreck and find a new hobby&#8230; Or at least, new comics.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Peterson</title>
		<link>http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/1001.htm/#comment-5755</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Peterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 17:08:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/1001.htm/#comment-5755</guid>
		<description>I have to tell you, JBB, you make a valid point.  I haven't been reading Civil War (well, more honestly, I haven't been BUYING Civil War, I read all the new books at work so I'll have something to talk to their fans about), for exactly that reason.

Here's the problem:  Joe Quesada doesn't understand the difference between GOOD storyhooks and BAD storyhooks, the same way my toddler is struggling to understand the difference between good and bad attention.  He believes that there are more interesting stories to tell with an unmasked Spidey, an imprisoned Cap, and a smarmy asshat autocratic Iron Man.   And, to be frank, there are... IN THE SHORT TERM.

But there certainly aren't 46+ years of good stories in these altered characters, something that obviously existed BEFORE the changes.  There are a lot of stories that COULD be told that would sell comics and draw criticism:  What if Wertham was RIGHT about Batman and Robin?  What if Wonder Woman were a transsexual?  What is Superman decided to take over the world and run it right?  

In recent years, the shift towards a more "cinematic" approach to comics (some would blame it on The Authority, but you have to take the blame back to where it really began:  Jim Shooter) has made for a "Can we top this?" mentality, not just at Marvel, but throughout the industry.   The Civil War and it's fallout are almost certainly going to be a temporary change in the status quo, especially if enough of us stop buying.   I've said it before: Vote with your dollars.

My four star rating for this book was based on several things:  The art was pretty.  The story gave us an ending to the Captain America/Iron Man battle (though not one that I liked), and the writing was more than competent.  Moments like Hercules' godly rage, the Invisible Woman's complete devastation of Taskmaster, Captain America finally acting like Captain America really SHOULD (by protecting the innocents, no matter what the cost, albeit far too late), contributed to the ratings as well.  

Most importantly, they didn't go deux ex machina and have Miriam Sharpe be Loki/A Skrull/The Martian Manhunter, they didn't immediately hit the reset button (though it's still clearly in view for any and ALL of these developments), they didn't kill Stark or Rogers (what would THAT prove?), they didn't have the Annihilation Wave show up and have everyone drop their fighting to be bestest friends again, and they didn't cop out by having one of the main characters disavow his obviously heartfelt and powerful convictions after some pretty speechifying.

It was what it was.  As crossovers go, it was too big, too sprawling, too didactic, too complicated, and far too pervasive for my tastes, but it was better than many of its ilk.  I still found more emotional resonance in that OTHER seven issue Mega-Crossover than in this one, but for it's many flaws, CW got people talking, it moved product, and it honestly &lt;em&gt;did &lt;/em&gt;leave the Marvel Universe changed in it's wake.

The main question now is:  For how long?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to tell you, JBB, you make a valid point.  I haven&#8217;t been reading Civil War (well, more honestly, I haven&#8217;t been BUYING Civil War, I read all the new books at work so I&#8217;ll have something to talk to their fans about), for exactly that reason.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the problem:  Joe Quesada doesn&#8217;t understand the difference between GOOD storyhooks and BAD storyhooks, the same way my toddler is struggling to understand the difference between good and bad attention.  He believes that there are more interesting stories to tell with an unmasked Spidey, an imprisoned Cap, and a smarmy asshat autocratic Iron Man.   And, to be frank, there are&#8230; IN THE SHORT TERM.</p>
<p>But there certainly aren&#8217;t 46+ years of good stories in these altered characters, something that obviously existed BEFORE the changes.  There are a lot of stories that COULD be told that would sell comics and draw criticism:  What if Wertham was RIGHT about Batman and Robin?  What if Wonder Woman were a transsexual?  What is Superman decided to take over the world and run it right?  </p>
<p>In recent years, the shift towards a more &#8220;cinematic&#8221; approach to comics (some would blame it on The Authority, but you have to take the blame back to where it really began:  Jim Shooter) has made for a &#8220;Can we top this?&#8221; mentality, not just at Marvel, but throughout the industry.   The Civil War and it&#8217;s fallout are almost certainly going to be a temporary change in the status quo, especially if enough of us stop buying.   I&#8217;ve said it before: Vote with your dollars.</p>
<p>My four star rating for this book was based on several things:  The art was pretty.  The story gave us an ending to the Captain America/Iron Man battle (though not one that I liked), and the writing was more than competent.  Moments like Hercules&#8217; godly rage, the Invisible Woman&#8217;s complete devastation of Taskmaster, Captain America finally acting like Captain America really SHOULD (by protecting the innocents, no matter what the cost, albeit far too late), contributed to the ratings as well.  </p>
<p>Most importantly, they didn&#8217;t go deux ex machina and have Miriam Sharpe be Loki/A Skrull/The Martian Manhunter, they didn&#8217;t immediately hit the reset button (though it&#8217;s still clearly in view for any and ALL of these developments), they didn&#8217;t kill Stark or Rogers (what would THAT prove?), they didn&#8217;t have the Annihilation Wave show up and have everyone drop their fighting to be bestest friends again, and they didn&#8217;t cop out by having one of the main characters disavow his obviously heartfelt and powerful convictions after some pretty speechifying.</p>
<p>It was what it was.  As crossovers go, it was too big, too sprawling, too didactic, too complicated, and far too pervasive for my tastes, but it was better than many of its ilk.  I still found more emotional resonance in that OTHER seven issue Mega-Crossover than in this one, but for it&#8217;s many flaws, CW got people talking, it moved product, and it honestly <em>did </em>leave the Marvel Universe changed in it&#8217;s wake.</p>
<p>The main question now is:  For how long?</p>
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		<title>By: JBB</title>
		<link>http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/1001.htm/#comment-5729</link>
		<dc:creator>JBB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 02:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/1001.htm/#comment-5729</guid>
		<description>I'm sorry, this series was hyped through the roof at Marvel and wound up being so pathetic that I'll not even claim it to be anticlimactic.
There is no climax.  For every story there should be a beginning a middle and an end, and there should be a resolution to the conflict.
That didn't take place here.  It was poorly written, with characters acting wildly out of character just to serve a KEWL moment, and in the end it set itself up for failure.  
Joe Q is to blame here people.
He jumped the gun trying to respond to Infinite Crisis and as a result he alienated more than just this reader, he may have wrecked his entire universe.
Lateness, poor quality and shoddy characterization will catch up with them some day.  
Make mine DC, or Image, or Dark Horse, I'm done with Marvel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry, this series was hyped through the roof at Marvel and wound up being so pathetic that I&#8217;ll not even claim it to be anticlimactic.<br />
There is no climax.  For every story there should be a beginning a middle and an end, and there should be a resolution to the conflict.<br />
That didn&#8217;t take place here.  It was poorly written, with characters acting wildly out of character just to serve a KEWL moment, and in the end it set itself up for failure.<br />
Joe Q is to blame here people.<br />
He jumped the gun trying to respond to Infinite Crisis and as a result he alienated more than just this reader, he may have wrecked his entire universe.<br />
Lateness, poor quality and shoddy characterization will catch up with them some day.<br />
Make mine DC, or Image, or Dark Horse, I&#8217;m done with Marvel.</p>
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		<title>By: doubledumbassonyou &#124;&#124; the Highlander was a documentary, and its events happened in real time. &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Civil War: Now What?</title>
		<link>http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/1001.htm/#comment-5707</link>
		<dc:creator>doubledumbassonyou &#124;&#124; the Highlander was a documentary, and its events happened in real time. &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Civil War: Now What?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 13:30:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/1001.htm/#comment-5707</guid>
		<description>[...] you&#8217;re looking for true analysis, head over to Major Spoilers or Newsarama (they are the professionals after [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] you&#8217;re looking for true analysis, head over to Major Spoilers or Newsarama (they are the professionals after [...]</p>
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		<title>By: LJK</title>
		<link>http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/1001.htm/#comment-5700</link>
		<dc:creator>LJK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 07:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/1001.htm/#comment-5700</guid>
		<description>Although I enjoyed Civil War, particularly #7, I am very much looking forward two years.  Call my cynical, but the only reason Marvel introduced this idea in the first place was to create a dystopia down the road.  Think about it, all they have to do is introduce a megalomaniacal president down the road, and suddenly they have another all out war with the government forces vs. the rebels.  Hell, they could even bring the “everyday citizen” into the story utilizing the superhumans as generals.  It may be predictable, but I really want to see it.  I’m a sucker for dystopian stories, in any genre.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I enjoyed Civil War, particularly #7, I am very much looking forward two years.  Call my cynical, but the only reason Marvel introduced this idea in the first place was to create a dystopia down the road.  Think about it, all they have to do is introduce a megalomaniacal president down the road, and suddenly they have another all out war with the government forces vs. the rebels.  Hell, they could even bring the “everyday citizen” into the story utilizing the superhumans as generals.  It may be predictable, but I really want to see it.  I’m a sucker for dystopian stories, in any genre.</p>
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